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	<title>Comments on: You Know You&#8217;re An Anti-Semite If &#8230;</title>
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	<description>Sapere Aude</description>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9434</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 13:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9434</guid>
		<description>Luigi said:

&quot;This Kosher crap is just propaganda,there’s no mention of it from reputable sources other than anti-semite like you. I was watching the ‘Understanding Anti semitism’ video too,but from part 2, I knew that the narrator is just faking a neutral and unbiased report,because from the moment this ‘kosher’ business it mentioned, he makes insinuations like ‘this is quite a sum’ etc..&quot;

HEY LUIGI.....This is for you:

``We are experiencing phenomenal growth,&#039;&#039; said Rabbi Moshe Elefant, chief operating officer of the kosher-certification body. 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&amp;sid=a9Eb.vP.8FjU&amp;refer=asia

Luigi, watch and listen  to the rabbi selling kosher tax to 1.5 billion Chinese. http://www.star-k.org/fe-videos.htm

Luigi, you might not mind having the wool pulled over your eyes, but we do - especially when that wool is kosher certified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luigi said:</p>
<p>&#8220;This Kosher crap is just propaganda,there’s no mention of it from reputable sources other than anti-semite like you. I was watching the ‘Understanding Anti semitism’ video too,but from part 2, I knew that the narrator is just faking a neutral and unbiased report,because from the moment this ‘kosher’ business it mentioned, he makes insinuations like ‘this is quite a sum’ etc..&#8221;</p>
<p>HEY LUIGI&#8230;..This is for you:</p>
<p>&#8220;We are experiencing phenomenal growth,&#8221; said Rabbi Moshe Elefant, chief operating officer of the kosher-certification body. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&amp;sid=a9Eb.vP.8FjU&amp;refer=asia" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&amp;sid=a9Eb.vP.8FjU&amp;refer=asia</a></p>
<p>Luigi, watch and listen  to the rabbi selling kosher tax to 1.5 billion Chinese. <a href="http://www.star-k.org/fe-videos.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.star-k.org/fe-videos.htm</a></p>
<p>Luigi, you might not mind having the wool pulled over your eyes, but we do &#8211; especially when that wool is kosher certified.</p>
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		<title>By: johnUK</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9433</link>
		<dc:creator>johnUK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 20:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9433</guid>
		<description>@arieh zimmerman 

Where all the foreign intelligence reports at the time of the revolution &quot;anti-semetic&quot; to. 

http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/jewishactivistscommunism.html

&quot;Last Days of the Romanovs,&quot; by Robert Wilton, T. Butterworth/London/1920, George H. Doran Publishers/New York/1920, Institute for Historical Review/Virginia Beach CA/2nd Printing 1996, pp. 184-185 -- According to the data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . . there were in 1918-1919, 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Jews.

http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/jews_and_bolshevism.htm

http://www.russians.org/communist.html

Communism up until 1967/68 when the USSR broke off ties with Israel to save trade relations with Arab states was supported by the international Jewish community. 

I could also mention that the Russian mafia is Jewish when they transformed there power from Communism to organised crime in the 70&#039;s. 

http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/criruss.htm

Or that 7 out of the 8 Jewish Oligarchs in Russia during the 90’s where Jewish brought upon an economic policy brought about by Jews Soros and the Harvard crowd Jeffery Sachs and elements in Russia Yegor Gaidar and Anatoly Chubais.
Not to mention they controlled every aspect of Russia during the 90’s. 

And there hypocritical stance of supporting independent Islamic separatist movements like in Bosnia and Kosovo and in Russia for which we got 9/11 and the lies told by Jewish commentators, PR firms,  Clinton officials and the Jewish mass media. 

http://sacru.com/

http://serbiandefenseleague.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@arieh zimmerman </p>
<p>Where all the foreign intelligence reports at the time of the revolution &#8220;anti-semetic&#8221; to. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/jewishactivistscommunism.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/jewishactivistscommunism.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Last Days of the Romanovs,&#8221; by Robert Wilton, T. Butterworth/London/1920, George H. Doran Publishers/New York/1920, Institute for Historical Review/Virginia Beach CA/2nd Printing 1996, pp. 184-185 &#8212; According to the data furnished by the Soviet press, out of 556 important functionaries of the Bolshevik State. . . there were in 1918-1919, 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts, 15 Germans, 1 Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Jews.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/jews_and_bolshevism.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/jews_and_bolshevism.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.russians.org/communist.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.russians.org/communist.html</a></p>
<p>Communism up until 1967/68 when the USSR broke off ties with Israel to save trade relations with Arab states was supported by the international Jewish community. </p>
<p>I could also mention that the Russian mafia is Jewish when they transformed there power from Communism to organised crime in the 70&#8217;s. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/criruss.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/criruss.htm</a></p>
<p>Or that 7 out of the 8 Jewish Oligarchs in Russia during the 90’s where Jewish brought upon an economic policy brought about by Jews Soros and the Harvard crowd Jeffery Sachs and elements in Russia Yegor Gaidar and Anatoly Chubais.<br />
Not to mention they controlled every aspect of Russia during the 90’s. </p>
<p>And there hypocritical stance of supporting independent Islamic separatist movements like in Bosnia and Kosovo and in Russia for which we got 9/11 and the lies told by Jewish commentators, PR firms,  Clinton officials and the Jewish mass media. </p>
<p><a href="http://sacru.com/" rel="nofollow">http://sacru.com/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://serbiandefenseleague.org/" rel="nofollow">http://serbiandefenseleague.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Annis Isbell</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9432</link>
		<dc:creator>Annis Isbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9432</guid>
		<description>Arieh - of course you have nothing else to say.   You have no argument.  The only way the Jew can ever win is if he forces political correctness and makes everyone feel evil if they criticize Jews.  When non Jews are free to speak and fight back you see which way the battle goes.

The very idea that holding Jews accountable and speaking the truth is the same as being evil is Jew propaganda.  If you refused to discuss things with evil people then you wouldn&#039;t be attempting to discuss Palestine with Israelis.  

Re-read the article above Arieh, we&#039;re the ones who have reason to be angry and from where we sit you are the warped one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arieh &#8211; of course you have nothing else to say.   You have no argument.  The only way the Jew can ever win is if he forces political correctness and makes everyone feel evil if they criticize Jews.  When non Jews are free to speak and fight back you see which way the battle goes.</p>
<p>The very idea that holding Jews accountable and speaking the truth is the same as being evil is Jew propaganda.  If you refused to discuss things with evil people then you wouldn&#8217;t be attempting to discuss Palestine with Israelis.  </p>
<p>Re-read the article above Arieh, we&#8217;re the ones who have reason to be angry and from where we sit you are the warped one.</p>
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		<title>By: george wells</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9430</link>
		<dc:creator>george wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 20:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9430</guid>
		<description>Arieh,  stop showing your jewishness.  You are reinforcing stereotypes your people have been  responsible for creating over thousands of years.

Hey,  we have nothing against you.  Just go off and start your own society rather than plotting ways of taking over ours.

Of course you are using and defining the word HATE to your own advantage.  What we are talking about here is outrage against the exploitation of one people by another.  The jews as a tribe survive by exploiting others like a parasite. Jews are known in their roles as lawyers, doctors, money lenders, bureaucrats, government agents, sales men, merchants but seldom as laborers or farmers.  They live upon the back of the common people, upon the labors of those who produce something of value for the good of society.  

Since you do not sincerely believe in social justice and in fact support those people who create injustice,  you deserve to be Hated and watched and then brought to justice for your deeds.  

So if that&#039;s what you would call an anti-semitic attitude,  what&#039;s wrong with it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arieh,  stop showing your jewishness.  You are reinforcing stereotypes your people have been  responsible for creating over thousands of years.</p>
<p>Hey,  we have nothing against you.  Just go off and start your own society rather than plotting ways of taking over ours.</p>
<p>Of course you are using and defining the word HATE to your own advantage.  What we are talking about here is outrage against the exploitation of one people by another.  The jews as a tribe survive by exploiting others like a parasite. Jews are known in their roles as lawyers, doctors, money lenders, bureaucrats, government agents, sales men, merchants but seldom as laborers or farmers.  They live upon the back of the common people, upon the labors of those who produce something of value for the good of society.  </p>
<p>Since you do not sincerely believe in social justice and in fact support those people who create injustice,  you deserve to be Hated and watched and then brought to justice for your deeds.  </p>
<p>So if that&#8217;s what you would call an anti-semitic attitude,  what&#8217;s wrong with it?</p>
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		<title>By: arieh zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9429</link>
		<dc:creator>arieh zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 20:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9429</guid>
		<description>Annis,
The answer to the 4th question; I was born a Jew - that is why I must defend myself against the virulent sickness your tortured mind creates.  My mistake was thinking the the &quot;reason&quot; in the site name  
meant reasonable.  There is nothing we can say to one another, there is nothing more I wish to say to you.  There is nothing you can say to me that does not stink of your  warped souls.and twisted minds.  In which sewer did you find each other?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Annis,<br />
The answer to the 4th question; I was born a Jew &#8211; that is why I must defend myself against the virulent sickness your tortured mind creates.  My mistake was thinking the the &#8220;reason&#8221; in the site name<br />
meant reasonable.  There is nothing we can say to one another, there is nothing more I wish to say to you.  There is nothing you can say to me that does not stink of your  warped souls.and twisted minds.  In which sewer did you find each other?</p>
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		<title>By: Annis Isbell</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9428</link>
		<dc:creator>Annis Isbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 19:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9428</guid>
		<description>Excuse me for butting in Zimmerman but, Jews always fall back upon the old &quot;Not all Jews&quot; routine.  

Do not all Jews benefit from the fact that people are afraid to criticise Jews for fear of being labeled anti semities?  Thats what the article is about.

Do not all Jews benefit from the fact that Christian blood is being spilled in holocausts against Israel&#039;s enemies and Christians are bankrupted even while we are being ethnically cleansed from the hell hole Jews have made in Palestine?

If &quot;not all Jews&quot; then how come you&#039;re defending Jews when it seems to me there is no defense?

Do not all Jews benefit by the progress of the Jewish race?  Just as all  Anglos, no matter their station in life, benefit from the progress made by the white race?  Don&#039;t Jews benefit because our government, media and financial institutions are infested with self serving Jews?  Therefore each race has a reason to pursue its own interests.  So why should Anglos promote Jew interests rather than our own?  What do you expect from us?

Didn&#039;t Jews work to make America diverse in order to pursue their own interests at the expense of the General Welfare?  There is no lack of race awareness and crimes against other races by the Jews.  Yet you are the only people who demand everyone else kiss your ring.

The idea that somehow we today are supposed to pay for something that we never did nor had any control over, such as Jewish historical suffering is stupid.  Jews would not have suffered so much if they were not world class AH.  That&#039;s why some of us don&#039;t like them, we see what they are doing to us right now.

Isn&#039;t it absurd to attempt to shame people for not liking a particular race?  Don&#039;t you have a better argument.  What if people refuse to be shamed?

Anytime you object to the killing of Indians you can leave America and everything it has to offer which would not exist unless white people took this land.  Its not right that you enjoy the fruits of all of that at the same time you claim that what was done was wrong.  But you should remember what we&#039;re capable of and that we are Americans, not Europeans.  

No matter what we did that will never justify what Jews are doing to Palestinians.  We champion the Palestinians however, not because we are flaming bleeding heart humanists in the pursuit of human justice and compassion.    We champion them because we like Jews less.  If it were in our interests to remove them from Palestine it would have already been accomplished.

Whether all Germans were responsible for what the Nazis did they sure as heck are all paying for it.  How many trillions have the Jews extracted from the poor Germans in their reparations scam?   

And most of the stuff told about them is lies.  That is a war that never should have happened and wouldn&#039;t have if not for Jewish people in the US government just like current wars wouldn&#039;t be happening if not for Jews.  I don&#039;t believe Hitler was the greatest evil.

The article in discussion is about how Jews use accusations of anti semitism in order to silence all opposition to their self serving policies.

When we speak of Terrorism we should think of Jews because they are the biggest terrorists in the world.  They have caused a lot more problems for us than Muslims ever could.

I have a solution to the Israeli question as well.  Get rid of the Jew power configeration in America, slay all of the Rothschild family, allow the right of return for Palestinian Muslims and Christians and if the Jews don&#039;t like it let them lump it. 

 If they have a right to a state of their own then so does every other people on Earth and the first thing other nations should do is get rid of the Jew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse me for butting in Zimmerman but, Jews always fall back upon the old &#8220;Not all Jews&#8221; routine.  </p>
<p>Do not all Jews benefit from the fact that people are afraid to criticise Jews for fear of being labeled anti semities?  Thats what the article is about.</p>
<p>Do not all Jews benefit from the fact that Christian blood is being spilled in holocausts against Israel&#8217;s enemies and Christians are bankrupted even while we are being ethnically cleansed from the hell hole Jews have made in Palestine?</p>
<p>If &#8220;not all Jews&#8221; then how come you&#8217;re defending Jews when it seems to me there is no defense?</p>
<p>Do not all Jews benefit by the progress of the Jewish race?  Just as all  Anglos, no matter their station in life, benefit from the progress made by the white race?  Don&#8217;t Jews benefit because our government, media and financial institutions are infested with self serving Jews?  Therefore each race has a reason to pursue its own interests.  So why should Anglos promote Jew interests rather than our own?  What do you expect from us?</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t Jews work to make America diverse in order to pursue their own interests at the expense of the General Welfare?  There is no lack of race awareness and crimes against other races by the Jews.  Yet you are the only people who demand everyone else kiss your ring.</p>
<p>The idea that somehow we today are supposed to pay for something that we never did nor had any control over, such as Jewish historical suffering is stupid.  Jews would not have suffered so much if they were not world class AH.  That&#8217;s why some of us don&#8217;t like them, we see what they are doing to us right now.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it absurd to attempt to shame people for not liking a particular race?  Don&#8217;t you have a better argument.  What if people refuse to be shamed?</p>
<p>Anytime you object to the killing of Indians you can leave America and everything it has to offer which would not exist unless white people took this land.  Its not right that you enjoy the fruits of all of that at the same time you claim that what was done was wrong.  But you should remember what we&#8217;re capable of and that we are Americans, not Europeans.  </p>
<p>No matter what we did that will never justify what Jews are doing to Palestinians.  We champion the Palestinians however, not because we are flaming bleeding heart humanists in the pursuit of human justice and compassion.    We champion them because we like Jews less.  If it were in our interests to remove them from Palestine it would have already been accomplished.</p>
<p>Whether all Germans were responsible for what the Nazis did they sure as heck are all paying for it.  How many trillions have the Jews extracted from the poor Germans in their reparations scam?   </p>
<p>And most of the stuff told about them is lies.  That is a war that never should have happened and wouldn&#8217;t have if not for Jewish people in the US government just like current wars wouldn&#8217;t be happening if not for Jews.  I don&#8217;t believe Hitler was the greatest evil.</p>
<p>The article in discussion is about how Jews use accusations of anti semitism in order to silence all opposition to their self serving policies.</p>
<p>When we speak of Terrorism we should think of Jews because they are the biggest terrorists in the world.  They have caused a lot more problems for us than Muslims ever could.</p>
<p>I have a solution to the Israeli question as well.  Get rid of the Jew power configeration in America, slay all of the Rothschild family, allow the right of return for Palestinian Muslims and Christians and if the Jews don&#8217;t like it let them lump it. </p>
<p> If they have a right to a state of their own then so does every other people on Earth and the first thing other nations should do is get rid of the Jew.</p>
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		<title>By: arieh zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9426</link>
		<dc:creator>arieh zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 09:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9426</guid>
		<description>I am afraid that I cannot agree; the free expression of hatred for any ethnic, religious, or national group assumes that each individual in that group is responsible for the actions of any of the group.
 
-Are all Americans responsible for the massacre of the Native American Peoples? 
 -Are all Australians responsible for the decimation of the native aboriginal population?
-Are all Germans responsible for the Nazi horrors?  
-Are all Hutu guilty of the Tutsi decimation? 
-In response to George W&#039;s rant, which is what set me off,
the central committee of the Bolshevik party in 1971 had 21 members, 3 of whom were Jewish. Out of proportion, yes. But GW then blames &quot;The Jews&quot;, for the death of 66 million kulaks and other &quot;class enemies&quot;.  
The White Russian counter insurgency, counting on classic Russian antisemitism, used  the fact that in the central committee 14% of the members were Jewish to accuse the entire  Jewish community of the criminal acts of the committee and later those of Stalin.
During the almost two millennium preceding The Enlightenment, the Jewish people were even more powerless than the innocent Palestinian public are today.  You say that, &quot;in the case of the Jews there is a long track record of causing ethnic conflict wherever they go&quot;  yet this blog is run by The Voice of Reason.
What kind of reasoning do you use?
I think that you are waiting for ne ti use the sad history of the wandering of the Jews to somehow justify the illegal and demonic actions of extremist Jews in Israel/Palestine.   
You will have a long wait.
But hatred, violence and brutality are not Jewish patents. The deplorable actions of the Israeli government and those of  the settlers should be, and are condemned by reasonable people of all nations, including mine. 
I repeat, if you do not try to offer reasonable  ideas for a solution to the conflict, if you are Jewish and lump all Muslims  together as terrorists, if  are not Jewish but lump all Jews together as &quot;the dangerous Jewish racket&quot;, then John, you care not at all for peace but use this &quot;reasonable&quot; site only to satisfy unreasonable bigotry.
the following is my tentative take on the bi-national versus two state solution.  
Though it is offered in good faith, I begin to doubt that resulting comments from this site will share that good faith.

Two states or a Bi-national State
As I noted in my previous entry, given the obvious difficulties, it is not yet clear whether the creation of a bi-national state is possible; it may well be, however, that in the long run, it would be more advantageous for both peoples than the two state solution. Some commentators might wish to discuss whether the &quot;right of return&quot; should be considered before the discussion of the difficulties of its implementation, but it seems to me that the deliberations of legalisms, and the nitpicking that invariably accompanies them, serve only to obscure the more important thoughtful regard of categorical moral and ethical imperatives. Justice, when it conflicts with law, must prevail.
I hope that the ordered listing of some the difficulties of the implementation of the bi-state solution will make it easier, for those for whom it is a desirable goal, to find cogent counter arguments.
So then, as an initial personal catalog of impediments to the creation of a bi-national &quot;Israstein&quot;, see the following:

- Fear of the &quot;other&quot;.

- Most Israelis are uninterested and woefully ignorant 0f Palestinian culture and peoples. We fear what we do not know or understand.

- Many Israelis sense that, no matter what the justification, forgivable or not, we are the cause of the great suffering of the Palestinians, but reject those feelings in order to continue their normal lives. The sense of guilt is corrosive and engenders aversion and bigotry.

- Many Arabs, conscious of the low regard of the West for their culture, become more radical in reaction. Violence can be the result.

- The Palestinians have suffered in fact, and in fact, some of the younger men, incited by the older, find ways to justify violent vengeance.

- In my opinion most Israelis will not accept a theocracy, Jewish or Islamic; many Palestinians might prefer one.

- The present move to religion of a more fundamental nature by many young Jews and Muslims
does not bode well for integration.

- Even if there is enough land for another x-million, it is questionable whether there would be enough water; this is also a problem for the two state solution.


- It would be suicidal to allow a great number of people to return before the economic and commercial bases are converted to accommodate the returnees.


- The cost of the return of great numbers of people is beyond the capacity of either, or even both peoples. An enormous amount of resources must be donated by America, Europe and the  Arabian oil rich countries. Until that money is secured, the greater part of the return of the refugees should not begin; the frustrations caused by an underfunded bureaucracy would destroy the project.

- On both sides there are too many old men enjoying the power of sending too many young men to kill and die for causes that young men misunderstand when filtered through hormone deranged minds. Strictly enforced limits on some forms of propaganda will have to employed, even if it is at the cost of limiting free speech.

Obviously the list is incomplete, other objections will be easily found. None the-less, the integration of Muslim and Jewish peoples, if done with intelligence and good will, might enrich our two cultures as has not been the case since the Spanish destroyed the high culture of the Cordovan Caliphate. The danger is that rather than the historically painful but now useful integration of the United States, or even better, that of Switzerland, the end result might mirror the tragedy of Bosnia or Burundi.

Is it credible to consider a two step process?  If the two state solution succeeds when measured by mutually accepted criteria, would that not be a welcome signal for the integration of all citizens of the land of three Sundays?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am afraid that I cannot agree; the free expression of hatred for any ethnic, religious, or national group assumes that each individual in that group is responsible for the actions of any of the group.</p>
<p>-Are all Americans responsible for the massacre of the Native American Peoples?<br />
 -Are all Australians responsible for the decimation of the native aboriginal population?<br />
-Are all Germans responsible for the Nazi horrors?<br />
-Are all Hutu guilty of the Tutsi decimation?<br />
-In response to George W&#8217;s rant, which is what set me off,<br />
the central committee of the Bolshevik party in 1971 had 21 members, 3 of whom were Jewish. Out of proportion, yes. But GW then blames &#8220;The Jews&#8221;, for the death of 66 million kulaks and other &#8220;class enemies&#8221;.<br />
The White Russian counter insurgency, counting on classic Russian antisemitism, used  the fact that in the central committee 14% of the members were Jewish to accuse the entire  Jewish community of the criminal acts of the committee and later those of Stalin.<br />
During the almost two millennium preceding The Enlightenment, the Jewish people were even more powerless than the innocent Palestinian public are today.  You say that, &#8220;in the case of the Jews there is a long track record of causing ethnic conflict wherever they go&#8221;  yet this blog is run by The Voice of Reason.<br />
What kind of reasoning do you use?<br />
I think that you are waiting for ne ti use the sad history of the wandering of the Jews to somehow justify the illegal and demonic actions of extremist Jews in Israel/Palestine.<br />
You will have a long wait.<br />
But hatred, violence and brutality are not Jewish patents. The deplorable actions of the Israeli government and those of  the settlers should be, and are condemned by reasonable people of all nations, including mine.<br />
I repeat, if you do not try to offer reasonable  ideas for a solution to the conflict, if you are Jewish and lump all Muslims  together as terrorists, if  are not Jewish but lump all Jews together as &#8220;the dangerous Jewish racket&#8221;, then John, you care not at all for peace but use this &#8220;reasonable&#8221; site only to satisfy unreasonable bigotry.<br />
the following is my tentative take on the bi-national versus two state solution.<br />
Though it is offered in good faith, I begin to doubt that resulting comments from this site will share that good faith.</p>
<p>Two states or a Bi-national State<br />
As I noted in my previous entry, given the obvious difficulties, it is not yet clear whether the creation of a bi-national state is possible; it may well be, however, that in the long run, it would be more advantageous for both peoples than the two state solution. Some commentators might wish to discuss whether the &#8220;right of return&#8221; should be considered before the discussion of the difficulties of its implementation, but it seems to me that the deliberations of legalisms, and the nitpicking that invariably accompanies them, serve only to obscure the more important thoughtful regard of categorical moral and ethical imperatives. Justice, when it conflicts with law, must prevail.<br />
I hope that the ordered listing of some the difficulties of the implementation of the bi-state solution will make it easier, for those for whom it is a desirable goal, to find cogent counter arguments.<br />
So then, as an initial personal catalog of impediments to the creation of a bi-national &#8220;Israstein&#8221;, see the following:</p>
<p>- Fear of the &#8220;other&#8221;.</p>
<p>- Most Israelis are uninterested and woefully ignorant 0f Palestinian culture and peoples. We fear what we do not know or understand.</p>
<p>- Many Israelis sense that, no matter what the justification, forgivable or not, we are the cause of the great suffering of the Palestinians, but reject those feelings in order to continue their normal lives. The sense of guilt is corrosive and engenders aversion and bigotry.</p>
<p>- Many Arabs, conscious of the low regard of the West for their culture, become more radical in reaction. Violence can be the result.</p>
<p>- The Palestinians have suffered in fact, and in fact, some of the younger men, incited by the older, find ways to justify violent vengeance.</p>
<p>- In my opinion most Israelis will not accept a theocracy, Jewish or Islamic; many Palestinians might prefer one.</p>
<p>- The present move to religion of a more fundamental nature by many young Jews and Muslims<br />
does not bode well for integration.</p>
<p>- Even if there is enough land for another x-million, it is questionable whether there would be enough water; this is also a problem for the two state solution.</p>
<p>- It would be suicidal to allow a great number of people to return before the economic and commercial bases are converted to accommodate the returnees.</p>
<p>- The cost of the return of great numbers of people is beyond the capacity of either, or even both peoples. An enormous amount of resources must be donated by America, Europe and the  Arabian oil rich countries. Until that money is secured, the greater part of the return of the refugees should not begin; the frustrations caused by an underfunded bureaucracy would destroy the project.</p>
<p>- On both sides there are too many old men enjoying the power of sending too many young men to kill and die for causes that young men misunderstand when filtered through hormone deranged minds. Strictly enforced limits on some forms of propaganda will have to employed, even if it is at the cost of limiting free speech.</p>
<p>Obviously the list is incomplete, other objections will be easily found. None the-less, the integration of Muslim and Jewish peoples, if done with intelligence and good will, might enrich our two cultures as has not been the case since the Spanish destroyed the high culture of the Cordovan Caliphate. The danger is that rather than the historically painful but now useful integration of the United States, or even better, that of Switzerland, the end result might mirror the tragedy of Bosnia or Burundi.</p>
<p>Is it credible to consider a two step process?  If the two state solution succeeds when measured by mutually accepted criteria, would that not be a welcome signal for the integration of all citizens of the land of three Sundays?</p>
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		<title>By: John Mason</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9425</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9425</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Obviously then, I was not referring to “most of the comment writers”, but to those who spew hate…it really doesn’t matter who the target is, “the true believer” is a believer in bigotry and prejudice first of all. The expression of “band p”, ,just talk, or rocks and clubs, depends only on the opportunities offered and then on being hidden in a crowd of bloody like-minded haters.
But given the lack of opportunity on a blog to do physical damage, well yes, the settlers are certainly causing a hell of lot more pain than the writers; but, as I said, it is only a matter of opportunity.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Would you like to see those who &quot;spew hate&quot; censored?  Or would you like to find out what made those people so angry?

There is a difference between posting on the Internet and real life:  The Internet is pure communication, and nothing else.  On the Internet all we interlocutors have is our intelligence, reason, and command of language.  There is no reason to fret about those who are unreasonable or extreme, because their unreasonableness can only hurt their own cause, by driving the ordinary person away.  On the other hand, a person who speaks with measured words, gives facts, and makes good points is going to make headway.  In my personal opinion, Jews are more worried about the latter sort of person, because it is a greater threat to the dangerous Jewish racket which has grown far too powerful in the Western world.

There is something that we need to make explicit here:  Organized Jewry are very wont to label any criticism &quot;bigotry&#039; or &quot;prejudice&quot;.  We cannot allow this bias to stifle free speech, and now that we have the Internet, Jews will simply need to grow thicker skin going forward.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Imagine that you are sitting in front of your extended family’s cave anywhere from 30,000 to 80,000 years ago.In almost all senses you are a modern human being.  [snip]&lt;/blockquote&gt;I appreciate your little analogy and I agree with your unstated assumption that basic human nature and basic tribal dynamics have probably not changed much in 50,000 years (probably much longer).  The problem with your analogy is that group B might be right.  The stranger coming down the hill might be hostile, and deserves to be regardedly warily until facts can be established.  On the other hand, in the case of the Jews there is a long track record of causing ethnic conflict wherever they go. So perhaps it is totally reasonable to join group B when a Jew comes walking into one&#039;s valley.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Obviously then, I was not referring to “most of the comment writers”, but to those who spew hate…it really doesn’t matter who the target is, “the true believer” is a believer in bigotry and prejudice first of all. The expression of “band p”, ,just talk, or rocks and clubs, depends only on the opportunities offered and then on being hidden in a crowd of bloody like-minded haters.<br />
But given the lack of opportunity on a blog to do physical damage, well yes, the settlers are certainly causing a hell of lot more pain than the writers; but, as I said, it is only a matter of opportunity.</p></blockquote>
<p>Would you like to see those who &#8220;spew hate&#8221; censored?  Or would you like to find out what made those people so angry?</p>
<p>There is a difference between posting on the Internet and real life:  The Internet is pure communication, and nothing else.  On the Internet all we interlocutors have is our intelligence, reason, and command of language.  There is no reason to fret about those who are unreasonable or extreme, because their unreasonableness can only hurt their own cause, by driving the ordinary person away.  On the other hand, a person who speaks with measured words, gives facts, and makes good points is going to make headway.  In my personal opinion, Jews are more worried about the latter sort of person, because it is a greater threat to the dangerous Jewish racket which has grown far too powerful in the Western world.</p>
<p>There is something that we need to make explicit here:  Organized Jewry are very wont to label any criticism &#8220;bigotry&#8217; or &#8220;prejudice&#8221;.  We cannot allow this bias to stifle free speech, and now that we have the Internet, Jews will simply need to grow thicker skin going forward.</p>
<blockquote><p>Imagine that you are sitting in front of your extended family’s cave anywhere from 30,000 to 80,000 years ago.In almost all senses you are a modern human being.  [snip]</p></blockquote>
<p>I appreciate your little analogy and I agree with your unstated assumption that basic human nature and basic tribal dynamics have probably not changed much in 50,000 years (probably much longer).  The problem with your analogy is that group B might be right.  The stranger coming down the hill might be hostile, and deserves to be regardedly warily until facts can be established.  On the other hand, in the case of the Jews there is a long track record of causing ethnic conflict wherever they go. So perhaps it is totally reasonable to join group B when a Jew comes walking into one&#8217;s valley.</p>
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		<title>By: arieh zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9423</link>
		<dc:creator>arieh zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 23:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9423</guid>
		<description>Obviously then, I was not referring to &quot;most of the comment writers&quot;, but to those who spew hate...it really doesn&#039;t matter who the target is, &quot;the true believer&quot;  is a believer in bigotry and prejudice first of all.  The expression of &quot;band p&quot;, ,just talk, or rocks and clubs, depends only on the opportunities offered and then on being hidden in a crowd of  bloody like-minded haters.
But given the lack of opportunity on a blog to do physical damage, well yes, the settlers are certainly causing a hell of lot more pain than the writers; but, as I said, it is only a matter of opportunity.  

Imagine that you are sitting in front of your extended family&#039;s cave anywhere from 30,000 to 80,000 years ago.In almost all senses you are a modern human being.  You have speech, though how limited no one now knows.  The relationships within the &quot;tribe&quot; are not so different from the customs of modern tribes which the more technically advanced societies have not yet debased. The relationship between the sexes is already based on the greater strength and brutality of the men, (Robert Graves not withstanding), and so on, and so forth.
Well then, as the afternoon wanes and the shadows grow longer, you are sitting there in the cave mouth preparing to light the fire  that will protect you from animals more successfully vicious than you are.  Suddenly someone points out a figure coming down the slope of the mountain to the north of the cave.  All your relatives and friends jump up in wonder.  The mountain was thought to be holy and therefore unclimbable.  As the figure comes closer you see that it is a stranger, a man dressed in furs of a different style than those of your tribe.
At that point, your tribe finds itself divided into three groups. There are always three groups, and there are always only three major groups; call them Group A, (empathy driven);  Group B, (true believers); Group C, (identified by indecision).
Group A is the smallest, at most 20% of the tribe. It goes out to meet the stranger with gourds of water or  some fruit; its members want to ask the stranger about the other side of the mountain for they have never been there. Is there ample water, game, and fruit? What are the customs of the people there? &quot;Is your  tribe as well satisfied with your cave as we are with ours?&quot;
Group B is about 50% larger than the first group. The have come with wooden clubs from the cave armory, and on the way have filled up their pouches with stones.  The newcomer is an intruder and therefore dangerous. They push away Group A, and surround the potential enemy while waving clubs and gnashing teeth. In a tsunami of demands, insults, threats, curses and an occasional blow to the back of his head as they force him to his knees until he cries for mercy.
In the meantime Group C consisting of 50% or more of the tribe hang back at the cave mouth waiting to see which of the two first groups will ultimately determine the fate of the man from over the sacred mountain. They will sheepishly follow either Group A or Group B once the stand off is resolved.
The thing is, you get to chose the group to which you will belong.
The history of the Jews has made them too ofter the stranger coming down from the mountain. They, (we) should have learned something from that; those that haven&#039;t are now on public display breaking Palestinian heads in the West Bank and until recently, in Gaza. I offer no excuse for their actions.  
But in regard to those writers who, safe and sound, are enjoying the spectacle from the side lines, If you are not trying to find ideas for a  reasonable and just solution, if you are just spreading additional rancor and enmity, you are part of the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously then, I was not referring to &#8220;most of the comment writers&#8221;, but to those who spew hate&#8230;it really doesn&#8217;t matter who the target is, &#8220;the true believer&#8221;  is a believer in bigotry and prejudice first of all.  The expression of &#8220;band p&#8221;, ,just talk, or rocks and clubs, depends only on the opportunities offered and then on being hidden in a crowd of  bloody like-minded haters.<br />
But given the lack of opportunity on a blog to do physical damage, well yes, the settlers are certainly causing a hell of lot more pain than the writers; but, as I said, it is only a matter of opportunity.  </p>
<p>Imagine that you are sitting in front of your extended family&#8217;s cave anywhere from 30,000 to 80,000 years ago.In almost all senses you are a modern human being.  You have speech, though how limited no one now knows.  The relationships within the &#8220;tribe&#8221; are not so different from the customs of modern tribes which the more technically advanced societies have not yet debased. The relationship between the sexes is already based on the greater strength and brutality of the men, (Robert Graves not withstanding), and so on, and so forth.<br />
Well then, as the afternoon wanes and the shadows grow longer, you are sitting there in the cave mouth preparing to light the fire  that will protect you from animals more successfully vicious than you are.  Suddenly someone points out a figure coming down the slope of the mountain to the north of the cave.  All your relatives and friends jump up in wonder.  The mountain was thought to be holy and therefore unclimbable.  As the figure comes closer you see that it is a stranger, a man dressed in furs of a different style than those of your tribe.<br />
At that point, your tribe finds itself divided into three groups. There are always three groups, and there are always only three major groups; call them Group A, (empathy driven);  Group B, (true believers); Group C, (identified by indecision).<br />
Group A is the smallest, at most 20% of the tribe. It goes out to meet the stranger with gourds of water or  some fruit; its members want to ask the stranger about the other side of the mountain for they have never been there. Is there ample water, game, and fruit? What are the customs of the people there? &#8220;Is your  tribe as well satisfied with your cave as we are with ours?&#8221;<br />
Group B is about 50% larger than the first group. The have come with wooden clubs from the cave armory, and on the way have filled up their pouches with stones.  The newcomer is an intruder and therefore dangerous. They push away Group A, and surround the potential enemy while waving clubs and gnashing teeth. In a tsunami of demands, insults, threats, curses and an occasional blow to the back of his head as they force him to his knees until he cries for mercy.<br />
In the meantime Group C consisting of 50% or more of the tribe hang back at the cave mouth waiting to see which of the two first groups will ultimately determine the fate of the man from over the sacred mountain. They will sheepishly follow either Group A or Group B once the stand off is resolved.<br />
The thing is, you get to chose the group to which you will belong.<br />
The history of the Jews has made them too ofter the stranger coming down from the mountain. They, (we) should have learned something from that; those that haven&#8217;t are now on public display breaking Palestinian heads in the West Bank and until recently, in Gaza. I offer no excuse for their actions.<br />
But in regard to those writers who, safe and sound, are enjoying the spectacle from the side lines, If you are not trying to find ideas for a  reasonable and just solution, if you are just spreading additional rancor and enmity, you are part of the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mason</title>
		<link>http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446&#038;cpage=1#comment-9422</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 22:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=446#comment-9422</guid>
		<description>@zimmerman,

When you compare the comment writers on this site to the extremist Jewish settlers cluttering up the hills of Judea and Sumeria, I have to laugh.  The comment writers on this site are not brutally occupying a foreign land; they are not sanctioned and empowered by a vicious Zionist imperialist regime; they are not funded by U.S. taxpaying dupes.  Nor are they clamoring to do these things, on the large;  most of the comment writers are clearly level headed.

So, what counts as &quot;bigotry and prejudice&quot; for you?  Any expression of an opinion that you Jews don&#039;t want to hear?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@zimmerman,</p>
<p>When you compare the comment writers on this site to the extremist Jewish settlers cluttering up the hills of Judea and Sumeria, I have to laugh.  The comment writers on this site are not brutally occupying a foreign land; they are not sanctioned and empowered by a vicious Zionist imperialist regime; they are not funded by U.S. taxpaying dupes.  Nor are they clamoring to do these things, on the large;  most of the comment writers are clearly level headed.</p>
<p>So, what counts as &#8220;bigotry and prejudice&#8221; for you?  Any expression of an opinion that you Jews don&#8217;t want to hear?</p>
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