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The Heretics’ Hour: Slavs and non-Slavs in Eastern Europe

November 22, 2010

Andreas Wesserle

Prague-born Andreas Wesserle, with a PhD in Political Science, International Studies and History, explains the make-up, or mix-up, of national groups in this contentious area. Topics include:

  • Kollar and the Pan-Slav Conference of 1848;
  • Distinctions among the Poles, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Czechs and Romanians;
  • Polish expansionism from 1919-1939 resulted in cruel persecutions and forced flight of one and a half million Germans; also Hungarians, Ukranians and others;
  • Migration west to east since 12th century brought commerce, culture and new creativity into the eastern regions;
  • Influence of Holy Roman Empire on German national character;
  • And more.

13 MB / 32 kbps mono / 0 hour 56 min.

Contact Carolyn:
carolyn carolynyeager.com

Comments

19 Responses to “The Heretics’ Hour: Slavs and non-Slavs in Eastern Europe”

  1. A German on November 24th, 2010 1:47 pm

    And the Southern Slavs had their own identity idea, Illyrism!
    Where they tried to justify a unified Yugoslavia on the base of the ancient Illyrians. This was then followed by the idea of Yugoslavism, the ideology of “brotherhood and unity”.

    Today no Croat, Slovene, Bosnian or Serb refers to that anymore.
    Only the Albanians are proud today of their “Illyrian” heritage.
    Despite the fact, that the ancient Illyrians only lived in North Albania, and mainly in Yugoslavia.
    And despite the fact, that the Albanians are in reality a Muzzie mud people of Turkish, Arabian and Gypsy origin.

    What Dr. Wesserle also ccorectly told us, was the definition of the Kashubes and Masurians.
    They were Slavic, semi-Slavic, Germano-Slavic-Baltic,
    BUT THEY WERE NO POLES!
    They always voted for Germany! 90% and more.

    Until today the Poles say they’re Polish and until today Kashubians and Masurians deny that.

    For example, today the Poles claim the East Prussian Nikolaus Kopernicus as “their great national genius”.
    And today devote German traitor polticians give in and don’t object.

    But the reality is, Nikolaus Kopernigk only wrote in German and Latin, NOT ONE SINGLE POLISH WORD!
    And when he was in Italy he was in a GERMAN students’ fraternity!
    And all his relatives had GERMAN names and were GERMANS!
    Thorn in Western Prussia was Kopernigk’s home town and mainly GERMAN!

    And the name Kopern-igk is Germanic and means “son of Kopern”.

    But that’s they way Poles are…
    Claiming everything as proto-Polish!

    Poland reaches in their eyes from the river Rhine to the river Volga.

    If I would be mean, i would call them Aryan Jews.
    But I’m not mean ;-)

    And for your question of the Baltic peoples Carolyn:
    The “Balts” are devided in several ways.
    First of all, the “Baltic” Estonians aren’t ethnic Balts, they are Finno-Ugrians and related to Finns and Hungarians.

    So they seem to be Non-Aryan, but as in Hungary they had much Aryan impact, by Vikings, Slavs, Swedes, Rus (Russian Vikings), Germans. The whole Baltic States were over and over with German settlement islands.
    And the Estonians are protestants, like the Finns.

    Then we come to the actual ethinc Balts, the Latvians and Lithuanians. So they’re Aryan.
    But here’s also a division.
    Latvians are protestants and Lithuanians are catholics!
    The Lithuanians are catholics because they were part of the Polish empire for a long time, but perhaps also to delimit themselves from the orthodox Russians in the east and the protestant Germano-Prussians.

    And the old Prussians, the Pruzzen, of whom Dr. Wesserle spoke of, were also Balts and lived in Eastern Prussia and Western Prussia, but they very quickly assimilated by the Germans, and both melted together. Perhaps their numbers were just to small to stay independant as the other Balts.
    Or it’s because of my theory, that they were crypto-Germanics anyway! Because exactly there, the Germanic Goths lived 100 A.D.

    http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3291/snationsandtheinfluence.png

  2. A German on November 24th, 2010 1:48 pm

    1st PART:
    Quote: “migrating mobile Romanian minority” for Gypsies in Western Media.

    That’s all related to these thought crimes complex.

    And yes, Dr. Wesserle is right, the Gypsies came from Pakistan.
    But from the darker part!
    Pakistan is parted in a relative white Irano-Aryan west (the tribes region – Waziristan) and a brown Indic East, and in the South of this brown east there’s a spot of pitch dark Dravides from Southern India!
    And exactly from there the Gypsies came 1000 years ago.

    Perhaps the Turkish conquest of the Greek Byzantium opened the flood gates for themand the could enter Europe.
    One branch of the Gypsies first migrated down to EGYPT, over the Middle East, and then migrated over the sea to Greece.
    That’s why they were called (E)gypsies.
    Same as today, where ignorant people call them Romanians.

    And for the Polish massacres, Dr. Wesserle is again right.
    But it is even much worse!
    They didn’t do that only to woman, they raped small girls and nailed them naked to protestant church doors!

    Everyone who doesn’t believe that can see these grusome pictureres in the book: “Das Leiden der Volksdeutschen”
    (=the suffering of the ethnic Germans)

    And the Poles did that to all minorities in their artificial state of 1919. “Minorities” who were in fact the majority in this state.

    Do you Americans remember what you all did after 3,000 died on 911? 2 wars for a decade, millions of victims on all sides, draconian laws etc.

    And the ethnic Germans had to suffer under these circumstances for 20 years! 1919-1939
    And the 8 months in 1939 were the worst time!
    Poles killed !6,000! ethnic Germans in only 8 months.

    That’s why Hitler couldn’t longer close his eyes and HAD to attack this artificial pig-state!

    I always compare it to the NATO situation in Yugoslavia in 1995 and 1999.
    What Hitler did was just a militaric rescue mission, after diplomacy failed!

    He had no intend to start world conquest, as it is always propagated.
    Hell he even didn’t conquer Sweden and Switzerland nor did he invade Britain!
    And Denmark and Norway he only occupied, so the Brits would not start their bombers from there.

    A strange behaviour for an alleged “world conqueror”.

    And after he won in Poland, he immediately started diplomacy again, to reestablish peace in Europe. All documented.
    He even sent a Waffen SS honour guard to Pisuldski’s grave!
    Very stange for a “war monger”.

    And for the pan-slavic idea, it was just an oposition to pan-germanism, it had no real content.
    It caused perhaps the greatest enthusiasm in Russia and Poland, but despite that, both nations hated each other!

  3. A German on November 24th, 2010 1:49 pm

    PLEASE DELETE THE FIRST TO POSTS!
    I made a mistake!

    Again a great an informative show!
    I agree 90% with Dr. Wesserele.

    Where I don’t agree is the racial identity of the Hungarians.
    Because once I wrote a scientific paper about Hungarian Arrow Cross movement and their ideology of Hungarism.

    And for that I’ve read and studied some books about the Hungarian ethnogenesis and their DNA composition.
    And the result was, despite that the Hungarians are very proud of their Magyar (pronounced Madyar) origin, 80% of them aren’t Ugric Magyars!!!

    The DNA result shows that 80% of them are descendants of Indo-Europeans / Aryans, i.e. Germanics, Celts, Slavs and Dacians!

    Yes, they speak a non-Indo-European language, but their genes are mainly Aryan.
    It’s like Britain in 100 years, the inhabitants still will speak English, but most of them won’t have British, Anglo-Saxon nor European genes.

    The Pannonian plains always were inhabited, by Celts, Slavs, and several Germanic tribes migrated through this passage way.

    Most Hungarians look like the average Central European.

    We really have to imagine the Ugric conquerors, the Magyars, only as small ruling class, who forced their language on the Pannonians but couldn’t establish their genes there in a big amount.
    Like with the French speaking Normans in England.
    They also were a small ruling class and brought French words into the English language.

    At the battle of Hastings 1066 A.D., there were only a few thousand French Normans, and my of them returned to France after the battle.
    That’s why the English (Norman blood) later always had a lust for the French crown.

    If a Norman king really would have wanted so, the English today could be a French speaking country.

    And I’m also not really glad about Dr. Wesserle’s verdict about the Romanians.
    Yes, many races and peoples migrated through Romania and they have unfortunately 2 million Gypsies (25 million total).
    But the ground stock of the Romanian people is Aryan:
    Celts, Dacians, South Slavs (who migrated through Romania and Bulgaria into Yugoslavia!) and a lesser Roman impact, like in Britain.

    There are many Romanians who look like Yugoslavs, Greeks etc.
    but the dominant picture is a Gypsy.
    Because they’re so numerous there in the public and because our biased media doesn’t differentiate between real Romanians and Gypsies.
    Quote: “migrating mobile Romanian minority” for Gypsies in Western Media.

    That’s all related to these thought crimes complex.

    And yes, Dr. Wesserle is right, the Gypsies came from Pakistan.
    But from the darker part!
    Pakistan is parted in a relative white Irano-Aryan west (the tribes region – Waziristan) and a brown Indic East, and in the South of this brown east there’s a spot of pitch dark Dravides from Southern India!
    And exactly from there the Gypsies came 1000 years ago.

    Perhaps the Turkish conquest of the Greek Byzantium opened the flood gates for themand the could enter Europe.
    One branch of the Gypsies first migrated down to EGYPT, over the Middle East, and then migrated over the sea to Greece.
    That’s why they were called (E)gypsies.
    Same as today, where ignorant people call them Romanians.

    And for the Polish massacres, Dr. Wesserle is again right.
    But it is even much worse!
    They didn’t do that only to woman, they raped small girls and nailed them naked to protestant church doors!

    Everyone who doesn’t believe that can see these grusome pictureres in the book: “Das Leiden der Volksdeutschen”
    (=the suffering of the ethnic Germans)

    And the Poles did that to all minorities in their artificial state of 1919. “Minorities” who were in fact the majority in this state.

    Do you Americans remember what you all did after 3,000 died on 911? 2 wars for a decade, millions of victims on all sides, draconian laws etc.

    And the ethnic Germans had to suffer under these circumstances for 20 years! 1919-1939
    And the 8 months in 1939 were the worst time!
    Poles killed !6,000! ethnic Germans in only 8 months.

    That’s why Hitler couldn’t longer close his eyes and HAD to attack this artificial pig-state!

    I always compare it to the NATO situation in Yugoslavia in 1995 and 1999.
    What Hitler did was just a militaric rescue mission, after diplomacy failed!

    He had no intend to start world conquest, as it is always propagated.
    Hell he even didn’t conquer Sweden and Switzerland nor did he invade Britain!
    And Denmark and Norway he only occupied, so the Brits would not start their bombers from there.

    A strange behaviour for an alleged “world conqueror”.

    And after he won in Poland, he immediately started diplomacy again, to reestablish peace in Europe. All documented.
    He even sent a Waffen SS honour guard to Pisuldski’s grave!
    Very stange for a “war monger”.

    And for the pan-slavic idea, it was just an oposition to pan-germanism, it had no real content.
    It caused perhaps the greatest enthusiasm in Russia and Poland, but despite that, both nations hated each other!

    And the Southern Slavs had their own identity idea, Illyrism!
    Where they tried to justify a unified Yugoslavia on the base of the ancient Illyrians. This was then followed by the idea of Yugoslavism, the ideology of “brotherhood and unity”.

    Today no Croat, Slovene, Bosnian or Serb refers to that anymore.
    Only the Albanians are proud today of their “Illyrian” heritage.
    Despite the fact, that the ancient Illyrians only lived in North Albania, and mainly in Yugoslavia.
    And despite the fact, that the Albanians are in reality a Muzzie mud people of Turkish, Arabian and Gypsy origin.

    What Dr. Wesserle also ccorectly told us, was the definition of the Kashubes and Masurians.
    They were Slavic, semi-Slavic, Germano-Slavic-Baltic,
    BUT THEY WERE NO POLES!
    They always voted for Germany! 90% and more.

    Until today the Poles say they’re Polish and until today Kashubians and Masurians deny that.

    For example, today the Poles claim the East Prussian Nikolaus Kopernicus as “their great national genius”.
    And today devote German traitor polticians give in and don’t object.

    But the reality is, Nikolaus Kopernigk only wrote in German and Latin, NOT ONE SINGLE POLISH WORD!
    And when he was in Italy he was in a GERMAN students’ fraternity!
    And all his relatives had GERMAN names and were GERMANS!
    Thorn in Western Prussia was Kopernigk’s home town and mainly GERMAN!

    And the name Kopern-igk is Germanic and means “son of Kopern”.

    But that’s they way Poles are…
    Claiming everything as proto-Polish!

    Poland reaches in their eyes from the river Rhine to the river Volga.

    If I would be mean, i would call them Aryan Jews.
    But I’m not mean ;-)

    And for your question of the Baltic peoples Carolyn:
    The “Balts” are devided in several ways.
    First of all, the “Baltic” Estonians aren’t ethnic Balts, they are Finno-Ugrians and related to Finns and Hungarians.

    So they seem to be Non-Aryan, but as in Hungary they had much Aryan impact, by Vikings, Slavs, Swedes, Rus (Russian Vikings), Germans. The whole Baltic States were over and over with German settlement islands.
    And the Estonians are protestants, like the Finns.

    Then we come to the actual ethinc Balts, the Latvians and Lithuanians. So they’re Aryan.
    But here’s also a division.
    Latvians are protestants and Lithuanians are catholics!
    The Lithuanians are catholics because they were part of the Polish empire for a long time, but perhaps also to delimit themselves from the orthodox Russians in the east and the protestant Germano-Prussians.

    And the old Prussians, the Pruzzen, of whom Dr. Wesserle spoke of, were also Balts and lived in Eastern Prussia and Western Prussia, but they very quickly assimilated by the Germans, and both melted together. Perhaps their numbers were just to small to stay independant as the other Balts.
    Or it’s because of my theory, that they were crypto-Germanics anyway! Because exactly there, the Germanic Goths lived 100 A.D.

    http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3291/snationsandtheinfluence.png

  4. Carolyn on November 25th, 2010 5:37 pm

    @A German,

    You might not have gotten the right impression of how Dr. Wesserle thinks about the Romanians. A more positive comment that he started with got edited out, and the emphasis on the Gypsies came from my question.

    Although what you have written about them is confusing to me.

    I like the map you linked us to. Thanks for that.

    As to Copernicus [you're spelling it Kopernigk], a fellow with a Polish name who said he was half Polish wrote to me following this program to complain of my “Polish bias” and, along with many other similar statements, insisted that Copernicus had one Polish and one German parent, which is not true. But he still insists it is. Also that Pilsudski was Polish even though he was born in Lithuania, because lots of Poles live in Lithuania. His name proves he is Polish. Then he said, even if DNA tests proved that Pilsudski was !00% Lithuanian, it wouldn’t make any difference. Any difference to what, he didn’t say.

    He finally argues that saying these things about Poland works against white Aryan unity. These are the kind of non-arguments I get — not based on facts, but on trying to “persuade” … and really, bully [imo].

  5. A German on November 26th, 2010 2:26 pm

    As I said Carolyn!

    Poles ALWAYS claim everything as proto-Polish.
    That’s there nature.

    And the Pole is right: it’s against white unity!
    But it’s the Pole’s fault, their chauvinism!
    But they deny to see it. In their eyes it’s always a conspiracy against Poland!

    Look, German nationalists gather with Czechs, even with Russians.
    But what happen if Poles are on a meeting?
    A fight!
    With all. They have beef with Germans, Czechs, Slovaks, Lithuanians, Ukrainians.

    And they never realize that’s because of their wrong chauvinistic behaviour! Polish stone-age-nationalism.

    They’re unable to confess any wrong doings.

    And your critic is really the first Pole who confesses that Copernicus might have had a German parent. Normally they cliam he was 1000% Pole.

    LOL

    And in what way was my description of the Gypsies confusing Carolyn?
    I would like to clarify it.

  6. Carolyn on November 27th, 2010 12:32 pm

    @A German,

    Not about the gypsies, but it’s confusing to me where you said this:

    “And I’m also not really glad about Dr. Wesserle’s verdict about the Romanians.
    Yes, many races and peoples migrated through Romania and they have unfortunately 2 million Gypsies (25 million total).
    But the ground stock of the Romanian people is Aryan:
    Celts, Dacians, South Slavs (who migrated through Romania and Bulgaria into Yugoslavia!) and a lesser Roman impact, like in Britain.”

    I’m not sure what you’re referring to re Wesserle. Maybe you can clarify.

  7. A German on November 27th, 2010 7:48 pm

    @Carolyn
    In the broadcast it sounded as Dr. Wesserle would think, that Romanians are non-Aryan muds.
    And that’s not correct.

    It’s just, that we from the outside get this impression.

    It’s like watching American tv and then you have to think there are 300 million Negros in the USofA, instead of only 30 million.

    It’s just a domination on the surface.

  8. Carolyn on November 27th, 2010 8:29 pm

    German, I can tell you that’s not Dr. W’s opinion at all. He was responding to my take on it, which was sort of like that. He first responded to me by saying he had some Romanian students at a university in Europe and they were “very intelligent.” He then said they were sort of nationalistic. Then to answer my question as to “what was their problem”, he said that one explanation was that the upper classes had fewer children, but the lower classes had lots and lots of children, so they expanded. It is I that has the impression that Romanians are backward.

    But if they can stand up to the Elie Wiesel Institute for the Study of the Holocaust in Romania about those bones that were uncovered, making sure they test them scientifically to find out who they are, my opinion of Romanians will go way, way up!!

    I’ve looked every few days, but not a word has been published about it in the media since that Romanian prosecutor put out the statement, “We cannot say that they are Jews.” Obviously, all the manuevering is going on behind the scenes. Pray for the strength of the Romanian justice system.

  9. Andor on November 27th, 2010 9:27 pm

    Hi @A German,

    The majority of people continue to believe the well debunked
    theories regarding the origins and language of the Magyar people.
    The Jewish holocaust myth is not the only area of history which
    has been revised.

    The history and origins of the Magyar people was successfully suppressed by the Catholic church,Habsburg Austrians,various Germanic states(before Germany was a federation).Their ancient system of writing and pagan culture was swept under the carpet as in other parts of Europe.Of course the surrounding Slav peoples have also been involved.

    @A German you are correct regarding the DNA make up of the Magyar people today.The DNA studies show the Magyars to be very close to Polish,Czech,Hrvat,Slovak,and Ukrainian people.

    DNA has also proved that the Magyars has the highest percentage of the pre Indo European/Aryan haplotype.This DNA is found throughout Europe.

    In the 19th century a few Magyar historians established through the study of the ancient Rovas runic writing system that the Magyar people have in fact been present in central,Eastern Europe for over 8000 years.Recent studies have moved it up to 14000 years.The links have been established via artefacts and finds of Rovas writing which was written right to left on sticks,timber.

    An Italian historian by the name of Michelangelo Naddeo has been working on this for many years.He is confirming what Adorjan Magyar and others discovered in the 19th century.Between the church the Habsburg era and fifty years of Soviet rule these facts were well buried.The ZOG government and universties in Hungary obviously do not have an interest in this either.The Euro Union is also anti culture and nations.

    One big hole in the story that has been filled is the myth that Magyars originate from central Asia/Siberia.A large number of the core that lived in central Europe migrated to this part of Asia around 2000BC.Hence the spread of the language into Asia,West to East not East to West.The Magyars that migrated into Europe from circa 700-900AD were these people returning.

    Check out his website.

    http://www.michelangelo.cn

    The confusion over the Romanians and Gypsies may have something to do with the term Romany used for Gypsies.When there is trouble with Gypsies in western Europe the Jew media refer to them as Romanians.

  10. Andor on November 27th, 2010 10:34 pm

    Hi @Carolyn,

    The fact Poland have agreements or treaties with Israel is just an indication of a ZOG government.No different to present day Germany,Austria,France,Hungary,Czech etc.I wouldn’t paint the majority of Poles pro Zionist for this reason.

    I know from my research on Hungary that their government nearly as ZOG as during the Soviet ie:Jewish occupation 1945-1989.The events of October-November 2006 after the Jew prime minister was exposed as a liar in a tape recording showed the peoples true nationalist pride.The following year before the national day March 15 the government flew in an Israeli military unit as security at various public events that day.Jews were also advised to stay home that weekend for their own safety.

    The education system is influenced by Israel,police training etc.Much of the same must be going on in Poland,Germany etc.The Judeo/Masonic rule is strong in most of Europe not just the former Soviet block countries.The Central and Eastern European countries are fortunate though not to have the massive middle Eastern and Black immigrant problems as in Germany,France,Nederland,Belgium and Britain.

    Carolyn have a listen to a show on the Orthodox Nationalist regarding Poland.The connection with Jewish money and nobility.The more recent show on Austro-Hungary is also a good listen.

  11. A German on November 28th, 2010 3:46 am

    @Andor
    I totally agree!

    Is this ancient pre-Aryan but white gene in Hungary R1b?
    That would fit to the Solutrean theory.
    R1b were the first white Europeans, mostly in western Europe, with the genecode R1b.

    The cultural-linguistic group of the Aryans only formed in 3,500 BC in the region between northwest Germany and west Ukraine and then began to spread over whole Europe.
    They mainly were bearers of the genecodes I and R1a.

    And so the Aryans covered the ancient Solutrean population in western Europe. And soon these crypto-Solutreans were identified as “typical” “Aryan” “Celts”.
    But they only adopted the Aryan Celtishness.

    Where Europe appears especially “Celtic”, there the pre-Aryan gene R1b is especially strong:
    western Ireland, Scottish Highlands, Wales, Cornwall, Brittany, Bask county, Galicia.

    And the ancient peoples like, the Picts, the Basks, the Iberians, the Ligurians may have been of this pre-Aryan, Solutrean origin.

    But at the end both, Solutreans (proto-west-Europeans) and younger Aryans were descendants of the first white man in Europe:
    Cro-Magnon.

    http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6755/racialcromagnonssolutri.png

  12. Andor on November 28th, 2010 8:49 am

    @A German,

    The pre Indo-European Aryan haplotype is R1a1a.R1b is much lower east of Germany,Austria and Italy.The R1a types are similarly a smaller proportion in western Europe.

    There is mention of the Solutrean connection as you mention and also a distant link to the Basque people via language.Adorjan Magyar in the 19th century was studying a linguistic link from ancient Magyars to pre Roman Etruscans through Rovas writing.This again has come to light through Naddeo’s work.

    Your mention of Celts is also interesting because the Pannonia region was Celtic land for a while.There are other studies of Magyar language influence in Celtic language from the time they were there before being concentrated in France,Switzerland and Britain.Even the word Celt has been related to the Magyar word for east “Kelet”,still used today.The Scottish word for lake “loch” has a possible link to the Magyar word for hole “lyuk”.Also a linguistic link with river names spanning from Britain to Russia.

    @A German,good to see you have an interest in this subject,much more interesting than the same old Holocaust stuff.No offence @Carolyn,keep up the good work.The recent shows have been a good change.You must have similar dedication as Fredrick Toben here in Australia.I read your article in one of his recent newsletters.

  13. A German on November 28th, 2010 12:00 pm

    @Andor
    The Scottish “Loch” for lake can also come from the Germanic language. In German hole is “Loch”.
    And Celts we call “Kelten” (pl.) and “Kelte” (sing.), perhaps derived from the Greek word “Keltoi”.

    What I find interesting, everywhere in Germany and Austria and Switzerland, where Celts settled, there you have cities with the syllable “Hall”,
    their word for salt and their “oil” in these days.

    Cities like Hall-statt, Schwäbisch-Hall, Hall-e etc.

    I think the Celts called themselves something with Gal-.
    Gal- was part of their autonym.

    Because we can find Celtic tribes all over Europe and the Middle East with the prefix Gal-.
    Like:
    Gal-edones in Scotland
    Gael-s in Ireland
    Gal-icians in northwest Spain
    Gaul-s in France (Gal-lois, Gal-lier)
    Gal-atians in Byzantium/today Turkey
    Gal-lileans in northern Palestine, region called Gaul-anitis by the Romans

  14. Akira on November 28th, 2010 5:55 pm

    And they call it a “hidden” agenda? A “secret” conspiracy?

    + + +

    Dominique Strauss-Kahn, JEW

    Managing Director, IMF

    2010.11.19:

    “… The wheels of cooperation move too slowly. Repairing the financial sector is taking too long, in part because policymakers are not paying enough attention to the pan-European dimension. … I see benefit in launching a “Single Labor Market” initiative at the European level … The euro area cannot achieve its true potential with a bewildering patchwork of segmented labor markets. These barriers exacerbate the diverging economic fortunes that threaten the euro area today. … Long-term growth would also get a boost from a less restrictive approach to immigration. … It makes sense to rely on immigration to address skills shortages … This could also make the social model more sustainable. … Europe cannot solve its problems by bolting its doors. … When the agenda is driven by the center, things happen. Think of the single market program, or of monetary union. But WHEN THE AGENDA IS LEFT WITH THE NATIONS, THINGS STALL. … THE CENTER MUST SEIZE THE INITIATIVE IN ALL AREAS KEY TO THE COMMON DESTINY OF THE UNION, especially in financial, economic and SOCIAL policy. COUNTRIES MUST BE WILLING TO CEDE MORE AUTHORITY TO THE CENTER. … Progress is being made on a number of fronts … The most ambitious solution would be to create a CENTRALIZED FISCAL AUTHORITY, WITH POLITICAL INDEPENDENCE … The authority would SET each member’s [EACH NATION'S] fiscal stance and ALLOCATE RESOURCES from the central budget … Such a leap toward European political integration appears unlikely in the foreseeable future, but we should exploit other ways of moving in this direction. … One is to shift the main responsibility for enforcement of fiscal discipline and key structural reforms away from the Council. This would MINIMIZE THE RISK OF NARROW NATIONAL INTERESTS INTERFERING with effective implementation of the common rules. … A separate, independent, institution could work … it would make sense to increase the size of centrally-allocated budgetary resources. This means going beyond the current EU budget, strictly limited by the Treaty, to a system that uses more transparent EU-wide instruments—such as a European VAT, or carbon taxation and pricing. … As Robert Schuman, one of the founders of the European Union, said in 1949, “We are carrying out a great experiment…GUARANTEEING an ETERNAL PEACE.” … These gains are now under threat… THE ONLY ANSWER is more cooperation, and greater integration. … NONE OF THIS WILL BE EASY. … IT’S TIME TO FINISH THE JOB, to finally realize the common destiny of Europe.”

  15. Andor on November 29th, 2010 7:45 am

    @German,

    Interesting.I honestly haven’t studied it from all angles,not being a linguist.The word loch may still have originated in some ancient Magyar,Scythian,Avar,whatever language.All i am doing is reading the research.No different to what you are doing.Though you may have an in depth knowledge on the subject whereas i just dabble in various areas concerning Magyar,Slav,Germanic and Europe in general.

    I believe there is a strong case against the catholic church,Habsburgs and various other western European royalty and even freemasonry over the centuries for suppressing and or fabricating history.Who runs the schools and the universities.Much of what many of us believe to be fact could be as fictitious as the hellofacost.The fact so many Europeans still believe in a Jewish religion is proof of the deceit.The is plenty they are not telling us.

    Many of these radio shows and debates are just fueling petty hatred between European nations.I am sure the Polish have probably just as much to complain about regarding Russia.The biggest country in the world and they still never have enough,Soviet and pre Soviet.

    I am sure Germany is doing fine with the amount of territory they have left.Looked like it last time i was there.Though i understand there will always be problems,non-white immigration being a big one.

  16. Carolyn on November 30th, 2010 7:41 pm

    @German and Andor,

    I sent A German’s original (3rd one here) comment to Dr. Wesserle for his comment, and this is what he just replied to me.

    The Hungarians are predominantly European racially, but their language is an amalgam of about 45% Finno-Ugric, 35% Indo-European (incl. Sanskrit, Hindi, Old Pharsi, Germanic, Slavic, Latin), about 20% “Altaic” (Turko-Mongol, probably incl.Hunnic).

    The Rumanians/Wallachians are a mixture, racially & linguistically, with heavy influx of Asian tribes incl. Kumans, Polovtsians, Avars, PLUS Hungarians, Germans, Slavs, Turks, Armenians, Gypsies etc. The language was “cleansed” by intellectuals in 19th century; got rid of Ottoman, Turkish, Slavic, German elements (e.g. Rosenberg became Monte Rosa).

    End of Wesserle. The way I, Carolyn, understand what he is saying: Hungarians are more European than Romanians, genetically. I repeat, I have nothing against Romanians and neither does Prof. Wesserle I’m sure, but according to him they are more of a “mixture” with more non-European genes mixed in than have the Hungarians.

    What comes to mind is that within any group, some individuals are more “pure” carriers of the major strain than others. That’s just the way it is, and according to National Socialism, this was not to be a dividing wedge among Germans (for example), but character and ability, etc. was what counted most. I subscribe to that.

  17. Carolyn on December 5th, 2010 6:42 pm

    @A German,

    Prof. Wesserle also wrote:
    PAN-SLAVISM, no matter what,was not a “Reaction” or outcropping toward Pan-germanism.

    Briefly, the Lutheran Slovak divine Kollar & his associates, while studying at the Univ.of Jena in central Germany (near Weimar) came under the influence of the minister & philosopher of history Herder (orig.from E. Prussia) who {correctly} maintained that there was not one, but a plurality of nations chosen by God & that they should enrich each other spiritually, Intellectually for the progress of mankind.

    Kollar & associates recorded Slovak folk songs (and sang them to Goethe in Weimar). He wrote several books including “Slavydcera” (The Daughter of the Slav Mothergoddess) in which he wrongly claimed that ALL Slavs speak “dialects” of a single Slav language. This was developed into an ideology seeking leadership from Russia over All Slav peoples – no matter how different hey were historically & culturally. It waxed in the19th & 20th centuries to the detriment of the Croats, Slovenes, Bulgarians, Slovaks, Czechs, even the Poles (who claimed their own Empire).

    He is responding to what you wrote:
    “And for the pan-slavic idea, it was just an oposition to pan-germanism, it had no real content.”

  18. Akira on December 5th, 2010 7:29 pm

    Not only was there absolutely a Proto-Slavic language which all Slavic languages are dialects of, but furthermore, virtually all Slavic literature derives from Old Church Slavonic.

    The Slavic languages/dialects were formed after Romance languages developed as dialects of Latin.

    If Slavs had the political and/or social will to (although they don’t) they could certainly come up with a Pan-Slavic language. In fact the Slavic languages are much, much, much closer to each other than the Chinese languages that were artificially joined together and contrived to form Mandarin in the 1920s.

    Slovio could well be used as a basis for a Pan-Slav language, but with it’s lack of inflexions it comes across as bland and characterless.

    Obviously any attempt to use such a language would soon have to deal with dialectism, but a standard Pan-Slavic literary language would be as easy to accomplish and maintain as standard literary English, German, Italian or French are today.

    Some form of modified reconstructed Church Slavonic would, I am sure, work better as a basis for Pan-Slav than a contrived language such as Slovio or similar fabrications.

    The only thing lacking is the will to complete such a project, since “Pan-Slavs” would be more likely to use some sort of English + pidgin-Slav combo to communicate these days.

    Anyway. Yes. Slav languages are dialects of “Proto-Slav”.

    http://indo-european.eu/wiki/index.php/Proto-Slavic_language

    “Old Church Slavonic is not identical to Proto-Slavic, having been recorded at least two centuries after the breakup of Proto-Slavic, and it shows features that clearly distinguish it from Proto-Slavic. However, it is still reasonably close, and the mutual intellegibility between Old Church Slavonic and other Slavic dialects of those days was proved by Cyril’s and Methodius’ mission to Great Moravia and Pannonia.”

    And virtually all Slavic languages are indeed to an extent mutually intelligible, either in spoken or written form. To a greater extent than Romance or Germanic or Celtic languages are mutually intelligible.

  19. Carolyn on December 12th, 2010 12:47 am

    @Akira from Andreas Wesserle:

    Brief reply to Akira “linguist”: Very impressive. Rather than trying to impress your Generalized Superego with professional-sounding formulae & Floskeln you might be better advised to stick to the facts. These are

    (1)There is no question of panslavism being a reaction to pangermanism, in time or in substance. Panslavism was developed in the second half of the 18th century. Also, beyond all empirical evidence it lumped all “Slavs” together under the tutelage of Russia. Thus, to allow for a huge expansion of hypothetical “pangermanism” comparable to the Russian conquest of eastern & central Europe in 1944 & 45 (pre-planned by Russian military blueprints in 1914) which, in 1945, was hailed by Serb students as an empire “za Jadrana do Japana!” — Germany would have had to occupy all Low Countries, all of Scandinavia, most of Britain south o. to Scottish Highlands, as well as the significantly Germanic (or mixed) regions of Italy and France, including Lombardy & Burgundy. This did not take place & was not contemplated.

    (2) While the eastern and southern varieties of the Slavic languages (not “dialects”) share fascinating and everyday affinities, this is by no means true of the western Slavic languages vis-a-vis Russian or Ukrainian. This pertains particularly to Slovak, Czech and Sorb (as a Slovak and Czech speaker I can attest to that fact). Interestingly, vital affinities connect the Slavic language group with the Latin group. Etc.

    (3) It was wildly ahistorical, nonempirical and imperialistic for Czech intellectuals in 1918 to propose (a) building a “Slav Corridor” from western Slovakia south through the Burgenland to link up with Croatia, thus strangling the Hungarians, (b) snatch a Montenegrin or Serb prince and make him “King of Bohemia”. They might, with better reason, have selected a Chinese mandarin or a Japanese samurai. Thus, vitally pertinent:

    (4) Above all, the religion, the culture & the history of the Slavic peoples under western Christianity (formerly under the rule of Rome), such as of the Croats, the Slovenes, the Slovaks, the Czechs, the Sorbs and even of the Poles, were fundamentally different from those of the eastern Orthodox bloc. Both are profoundly true interpretations of the Christian message of the first three centuries A.D. But politically, economically, geographically and IDEOlogically, confusing Czechs with Russians or with Serbs is worse than mating dogs with turtles.—This, VERY BRIEFLY, is the end of the panslav puzzle.—- Auf Wiederhoeren, AW

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