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Dietrich and Mishko, 12/12/2008

December 13, 2008

This Week in Disorganized America

In this episode, Dietrich and Mishko:

3 hours 16 min.

Comments

68 Responses to “Dietrich and Mishko, 12/12/2008”

  1. Scott on December 13th, 2008 2:24 am

    Thanks!

  2. Reck,Less:Abandon on December 13th, 2008 6:28 pm

    What a waste of bandwidth!

  3. Mishko Novosel on December 13th, 2008 8:33 pm

    RLA, can you give us a little more detail? We love to have constructive criticism, and feedback from listeners…

  4. Z.O.G. on December 13th, 2008 8:38 pm

    Mishko,

    The gold standard for money is the oldest scam in the Jewish bankers’ playbook.

  5. Z.O.G. on December 13th, 2008 8:41 pm

    As a matter of act, the gold standard is THE original scam of the Jewish bankers/moneylenders.

  6. Reck,Less:Abandon on December 13th, 2008 9:20 pm

    Sure Mishko, Thanks. Yes I may have over stated there, I don;t really know how to explain this, it’s just a deep feeling I get when hearing you guys bash Christians that rubs me the wrong way but, My perception is not the mainstream version. just because some one claims to be, is not so. I get where your coming from and all but if you would just try to bite your young when the urge arises, just for a while and see ? I really think no matter what today’s version is, the truth is, it’s just the opposite of judaism/ludaism….. (I know that’s not really a word) Anyway, there must be some validity to there hatred of it, Right. If you two could just drop it for a while, and let’s see how it feel’s….. Oh, and Thanks for addressing this in this manner/demeanor. Other than that, and some of that music, you two’s work is priceless….. I don’t mean to be a dick in public like that, just truly trying to help in my one kind of way for now, I would like to be/get more involved, at some point. Think about sending me your number again and I would like to chat with you in private over the phone sometime. I did/do send you emails, so you do have my email address….. Cheers Reck

  7. Mishko Novosel on December 13th, 2008 9:48 pm

    RDL, I understand the whole Christian bashing stuff, but keep in mind we’re trying to balanced. Peter is pro-christian, and we quite frankly don’t care for any religion. I don’t give out my number to people as a rule, but have received your emails, thank you for those.

    If you ever want to talk, get a headset and find me on skype, it’s very easy and costs nothing….

    Have a great weekend everyone.

    Mark

  8. Reck,Less:Abandon on December 14th, 2008 1:13 am

    Mark,

    Sound’s like B.S. to me, humm….. ac/dc?
    Well, thank God! for Peter Schaenk: The War of Perception.
    Uh Mark, “A Christan” is not/not just a “Religion”!
    But, I think I catch your drift now….. Reckonable A.

  9. Reck,Less:Abandon on December 14th, 2008 1:17 am

    Mark,
    WhatEver! <;~D
    Reconcile A.

  10. Z.O.G. on December 14th, 2008 1:21 am

    Nutcase.

  11. New America on December 14th, 2008 1:49 am

    Some quick thoughts:

    One, I like the idea of a core of really good people who are smart, and have The Big Picture in mind – Mark and Dietrich – bringing is several people for discussions dealing with the guests area of knowledge.

    Bud White is also an EXCELLENT part of the team – full marks, even though I missed him in this show.

    Hawthorne also offers a good counterpoint, and has enough of a broad perspective to carry his share of the weight. Maybe a weekly show with Hawthorne and that guy from Australia – safe from the efforts of Mark and Dietrich – might prove useful.

    Again, having little fifteen (or even five) minute commentaries from people like Harold Covington, would not hurt.

    If Terrible Tommy Metzger is a bit much – and he has really Figured It Out in his later years – then someone like his buddy Lone Wolf Wall Street might make an excellent occasional commentator – say, once a week.

    Thanks for a tremendous job, one and all.

    Incidentally, Dietrich’s Rant at 2hr 40 min in the 5 dec show really qualifies as something worth repeating much more often.

  12. New America on December 14th, 2008 1:49 am

    Hey!

    How about April Gaede?

  13. Stu Gavin on December 15th, 2008 3:33 am

    The Golden Agora guy was kind of a joke, he thought everyone was Jewish:

    Bill Gates?

    Putin’s wife?

    Medvedev?

    Where did he get this information form? Daryl Bradford Smith? A patriotard?

    DUMB DUMB DUMB

    That part of the show was embarrassing to listen to.

  14. roy on December 15th, 2008 4:10 am

    Would $10 a month be sufficient?I’m a white man,but I’m poor.

  15. European on December 15th, 2008 2:49 pm

    Religion seems to be popping up all the time, and some feel good (because insecure?) if they can bash christians. I am NOT a christian, but this anti-christian freak show is crazy. Why? Golden oldie by HAC from 2000 (yes, I know he can act weird at times), please read…

    ****
    OK, I will respond, and I will retain this C-Gram as my official “canned answer”, once and for all, on this subject. This is NOT an invitation to all the rest of you to weigh in; one thing I think we have all learned to our bitter cost is that this issue generates heat rather than light, and that any calm and rational discussion of the issue in what we laughingly refer to as a “Movement” is impossible.

    Any such discussion absolutely shatters what tattered, fragile fragments of unity we still have, and that is one reason, possibly the best, for simply avoiding the subject altogether. It is an issue which CANNOT get resolved. Not once in the past 28 years have I observed someone on one side of this argument convince someone on the other side. We simply end up screaming and cursing at one another, and we have more than enough excuses to do that already.

    I am not going to go into my personal religious views because they are irrelevant and would simply add one more element of GUBU to the whole issue. Instead I am going to address this on the purely pragmatic grounds which should govern every decision that a revolutionary makes. Within the reality of this GUBU “Movement”, the following facts stand out:

    1. The Christians have the money and are far more willing to donate it than the neo-pagans. If that sounds crass and greedy, so be it. The implications here are obvious and you are all quite capable of understanding why this must be an extremely important consideration in everything we do from A to Z.

    2. The Christians have what remains of the last, trickling reserves of personal, physical courage in the Movement. With the exception of David Lane and (some say) Robert Matthews, I never knew a neo-pagan who was worth a bucket of warm spit in the cojones department, and the majority—not all, but the majority—of the traitors and informers who have plagued us like maggots down through the years have been neo-pagan poseurs, while those who have stood up in prison and kept
    the faith have been Identity Christians.

    Please do not send me e-mails citing the few loathsome exceptions; I am aware of their existence. But this general pattern holds true. Please refrain from pointing out that one of my personal Movement heroes, Jost Turner, was a neo-pagan. Yes, I know that. He was also a brave and dedicated man whose mighty heart was broken by the destructive antics of his fellow “Heroic Vitalists” of the Koehl and Pierce sects. Again I say, this is not an invitation to a discussion. Scott asked a question and I am answering it here so I do not have to answer it again.

    3. The Christians of all sects have the last remaining, dwindling reserve on this continent of White women of child bearing age who harbor at least some kind of traditional social and racial values, and within the Movement that goes quadruple for the Identity Christians. Please do not send me e-mails pointing out the few notable exceptions like Lisa Turner; I am aware of them and they are atypical and rare exceptions.

    If we ever do hope to find sane and stable mates, I strongly suggest we look in the Identity churches and beware of tattooed, punk-hair-cutted chicks who are temporarily drawn to the Movement out of their own neuroses.

    Remember that girl who ratted out the so-called “COTC” in Florida. I cannot think offhand of a single genuinely strong Identity woman who has ever betrayed her man, unless you want to count Zillah Craig but we won’t get into that. Contrast that girl in Florida to the life of Sara Weaver after her mother and brother’s murder.

    4. There is another issue, and let me pick my words carefully here. We all know by now that the people who gravitate to our Movement have a certain tendency to what I will politely term dysfunctional personalities. This characteristic has always been extremely prominent in the anti-Christians. Frankly, I have always observed that the most violently anti-Christian among us are quite often the nuttiest.

    Their hatred of Christianity is more often than not visceral, not based on any genuine philosophy or alternate religious belief, and amounts to an obsession which eventually overrides every consideration of race, practicality, or sense of proportion. They are anti-Christians first and White racialists by a long second or third. It is no coincidence that the author of the vile “dev-nulls” which most of us have been pelted with at one time or another over the past few years is one Steve Kendall, who when he was editing the NSWPP publication PLEXUS I had to restrain every issue from publishing wild and hysterical attacks on Christianity, often to the exclusion of anything else.

    You say that you like Dr. Pierce’s position against Christianity. Pierce also does real estate and publishing deals with Jews, pays lawyers to file malicious and baseless lawsuits against those he views as his personal enemies, and runs what amounts to a bizarre racist version of Scientology. I used to say, some years ago, that I had a great deal of respect for Pierce no matter what he did to me personally.

    I no longer do; it is now my personal belief that The Great Man Himself no longer has all his oars in the water and hasn’t had for a longer time than any of us suspect. Some of the things he has done and is doing right now, especially his GUBU attacks on Skinheads and The Order in his new toy Resistance Magazine, indicate to me that he is losing touch with reality. His hatred for Christianity is part and parcel of that.

    5. Any public attack on Christianity by a White racial group or personality or tendency, or any PRIVATE attacks which will eventually become public since we are utterly incapable of resisting infiltration or keeping a secret, is political suicide. If someone like Pierce or Matt Hale wishes to commit political suicide by calling Jesus Christ a “dead Jew on a stick”, one might think that is their right, but no, it is not, any more than it is the right of a bus driver or airplane pilot to commit suicide by crashing his bus or plane while it is full of passengers. Whether we like it or not, the media have selected them to be our leaders (might as well, since we seem incapable of selecting our own), and their anti-Christian ravings are being presented to the people as official White racist “policy” and ideology.

    Whether we like it or not, the overwhelming majority of White Americans at least verbally profess some kind of Christianity, and WILL NOT TOLERATE or support views they consider to be blasphemous. That is the reality and we had damned well better internalize that reality fast and counter it as best we can, or at least refrain from attacking Christianity ANYWHERE someone like Morris Dees or Mike Wallace can track it down and broadcast it.

    6. There is a very distinct difference between the Christian religion as practiced by our forefathers for many centuries and the organized churches of today, and one of the marks of the obsessive anti-Christian is an absolute, manic refusal to acknowledge this clear fact under any circumstances. These liberal churches with women
    ministers and faggot weddings and money-raising activities for nigger murderers around the world are quite clearly in violation of the Bible and the tenets of their own supposed religion; they have simply elected to ignore the moral dictates of the religion they profess.

    Liberal Christianity consists of the Sermon on the Mount twisted and distorted into almost unrecognizable forms, and virtually nothing else. Many liberal churches use the Bible itself only sparingly and the Old Testament not at all. For them, Christianity is a buffet; they take what they like and leave the rest. I would be entirely happy to see Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson boiled in oil; you get no argument from me there. But they are not Christians, they are Zionists.

    The position of the National Front must be to have no position on religion insofar as we can get away with it, but to occasionally send a few signals to the Christians that we are not hostile to them on religious grounds and we represent no threat to them. Of course, silly me, I haven’t yet given up hope that someday we may be able to build a real Movement instead of a Three Stooges farce.

    You asked, Scott, and I have answered.

    HAC

  16. European on December 15th, 2008 2:53 pm

    @New America wrote:
    Again, having little fifteen (or even five) minute commentaries from people like Harold Covington, would not hurt.

    ***

    I agree, if he doesn’t attack all others like he does all the time and talks about POSITIVE things, like the NW migration, community building.

  17. katman on December 15th, 2008 2:56 pm

    http://www.burkfoster.com/plantationdays.htm

    the Louisiana prison system was modeled after the old jewish owned plantation system where they used prisoners as slave labor on their farms……….well darn, knock me over with a feather……

    perhaps a picture of things to come……….

  18. katman on December 15th, 2008 3:02 pm

    http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/brenda-norrell/2008/12/apartheid-us-takes-israels-lead-spying-and-killing-borders

    using israel methods in border protection on mexican border.

    i heard it said that it would appear that they are upgrading the border areas by using unmanned spy drones, and detection towers, etc to keep us in, not the mexicans out……………hmmm

  19. katman on December 15th, 2008 3:07 pm

    during the middle ages, the catholic church taught the ignorant masses, (poor white boys)……a cute little jingle……….

    “As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the troubled soul from Purgatory springs!”

    aw now isn’t that special?

    Pope Leo the Tenth ( a jew) showed his true feelings when he said, “The fable of Christ has been quite profitable to us!”

    oh yeh, i am buying this roscoe aka Doctor Doom argument about v1 vs v2……….oh yeh……..

  20. Nat Rothschild on December 15th, 2008 3:21 pm

    Sarge was fantastic.

  21. katman on December 15th, 2008 3:28 pm

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-140756878294549745

    soviet afghan war

    it would appear that president obama has not thought much about the ramifications of a prolonged involvement in afghanistan. brother nate is right. we will never win. we should not be there. those people never did anything to us, yet the jewish controlled mercenary armies of the americans continue to dutifully fight and die for nothing and call it patriotism and fighting for my freedom and my rights….they are not, but try telling them that. it disturbs them greatly if anyone should suggest to them in their narrowly focused world, that what they are doing is wrong……..

  22. katman on December 15th, 2008 3:36 pm

    http://yllescasfamily.blogspot.com/

    another useful idiot bites the dust. sad, very sad. but what can you say to them? they do not understand and continue to act like what they are doing is necessary. i say to them. why? why is it necessary? what are you doing? why are you doing what you do? wake up now. you have been used. you die for nothing. you kill innocent people whose only crime is that they want you to leave their country. this insanity must stop. of course when you argue these points with them, they come back with fox news rubbish. what is patriotism? is it just going with the flow or is it asking salient questions that must be answered? the dumbing down process has taken its toll now. so now they bring them home and have them face me in the streets……….such is life in amerika……..

  23. New America on December 15th, 2008 3:51 pm

    in reply to roy:

    You asked if ten dollars a month would help.

    YES!

    The important thing is constancy; send ten bucks a month, every month, and if enough of us follow in your footsteps, these guys can make miracles happen.

    EVERY PENNY goes directly to VOR Operations; server costs, bandwidth, whatever.

    It’s the best investment you can make for your Race.

    Period.

  24. Yippy on December 15th, 2008 4:04 pm

    Two great guests on this show. Hopefully we will hear from them again. Sarge raised a few interesting threads:

    - Medvedev: I think it’s possible that the President of Russia may be a bit like Brother Nathanyal. A Jew by birth and by default, but someone who now relinquishes his Jewish roots and instead follows a Christian and anti-Jew path. This is BN’s assessment; that Medvedev is a Christian. That is indeed if Medvedev is Jewish in the first place. He doesn’t particularly look it and information on Jewish heritage seems to be pretty scant, even on the Internet.

    In any case Putin is the man in charge it seems; although his marriage to a Jewish woman may be a cause of concern regarding Talmudic sympathies. Byron maintains that Putin’s United Russia Party is not actually Nationalist, which to me came as a fairly big surprise.

    Perhaps it is the case that in a country with a fairly Nationalistic party; you tend to think the ruling party is not Nationalistic enough.

    - Jewish Control of the Internet: Another interesting point Sarge raised is that of a Jewish lock-down of the Internet. I would stand with Sarge on this one; I think if the Jews really wanted they could silence practically all anti-Jew opinions off the Internet.

    The backbone of the Internet is controlled by Globalist Corporations who would readily bow down to Jew pressure if the law demanded it. As Sarge said, everything passing through the Internet goes through corporate and State layers and you could have gradual shutting down of “hateful” anti-Jew domains. As it stands, I severely doubt sites such as VNN and this could survive in Europe, where hate speech laws are in place.

    It would eventually come down to a satellite semi-private non-Official Internet Grid system, if groups such as anti-Jew Nationalists wanted to insulate themselves against Jewish censorship.

  25. roscoe on December 15th, 2008 6:13 pm

    Leo X was certainly what is called a bad Pope for letting Luther go so far. He was wrapped up in the renaissance but eventually condemmed him. Leo X was not a judaic and neither did he utter the allegation alleged by Katzman.

    It is Leo X who gave the DaVinci the boot from Rome and DaVinci left no work there.

  26. roscoe on December 15th, 2008 6:15 pm

    One would think katzman would admire this Pope who was asleep at the wheel when the judaic Luther sprouted the revolt against Rome.

  27. New America on December 15th, 2008 7:38 pm

    in (thoughtful) reply to European:

    Thanks for the heads-up regarding Harold Covington.

    One, I think his depth and breadth of knowledge make him invaluable.

    He has brought painfully clear analysis and insights to us, and has created the only model that makes sense for what White Nationalism, both as it has been, and particularly, as it could – and SHOULD be.

    I’ve made this clear on VNN’s Main Page on numerous occasions, and I’ll make it clear now:

    If whatever is proposed does not fit into Covington’s Northwest Republic Analytical Model, it isn’t White Nationalism, and it does not work for our Race.

    Simple as that.

    Two, Covington’s comments above represent an Adult perspective; Sky God Pierce, for all the good he did, can not do it for us, and far too many of the high school cafeteria cliques that compromise White Nationalists simply do not have the courage to actually DO BETTER tan those who came before us.

    Hell, April Gaede – a GIRL! – showed more courage than they ever will!

    Big “YES!” to having Covington do commentaries on VOR.

    THAT is worthy of *ahem* “constancy,” as well as consistency!

  28. katman on December 15th, 2008 7:47 pm

    leonardo da vinci was a jew………i really don’t care what one jew did to another.

    Nisht gefloygen.

  29. roscoe on December 15th, 2008 8:06 pm

    What is the source on DaVinci being a judaic?

  30. New America on December 15th, 2008 9:57 pm

    And now, a controversial idea.

    VOR succeeds because it is willing to transcend the high school cafeteria cliques that are the hallmark of “Movement Present” – the Cause would be a more apt expression, and even The Cause needs articulation in its definition.

    A modest proposal.

    I was booted from VNN for observing the Federal judiciary’s opinion of Kevin Alfred Strom, and supporting their position.

    Kevin Alfred Strom has been released to society, under a wall of Federal supervision.

    Yet, he WROTE and EDITED the American Dissident Voices broadcasts Pierce read, and did several broadcasts of his own.

    Question:

    Might it be worth considering that, should Kevin Alfred Strom wish to return to communications, he be encouraged to do podcasts – perhaps cleaned up version of his best ADV’s for starters – for VOR?

    While we are about it, are some of Bill White’s, or his associate, Jarl’s, commentaries available, and would they be worth including?

  31. Reck,Less:Abandon on December 16th, 2008 6:03 am

    Babble on…..

  32. Stu Gavin on December 17th, 2008 8:30 pm

    Martin Luther was a Judaic?

  33. Peter Schaenk on December 18th, 2008 5:11 am
  34. Peter Schaenk on December 18th, 2008 5:12 am
  35. Z.O.G. on December 18th, 2008 3:00 pm

    Hey, “Peter Schaenk”, or whatever your fake name is. The Jews hated Western culture(and indeed all non-Jewish cultures) LONG BEFORE Christianity was even invented.

    It seems that you keep conveniently forgetting this very important fact. Now why is that? ;-)

  36. Eric Fuchschit on December 18th, 2008 3:52 pm

    Hey New America, do you have any links showing Strom wrote all Pierces programs? I like listening to
    Pierces archives but avoid anything Strom just on principal. I think anyone who read someone else’s material should be required to say their damn name before and afterward!

  37. New America on December 18th, 2008 4:21 pm

    in reply:
    I have seen it in several places, but I think I read it in print form Griffin’s “Fame of a Dead Man’s Deeds.”

    It’s a shame you see fit to reject so much of what Kevin Alfred Strom had to say; his work, “Toward The Stars,” is a reminder – and one I wish he would redo with modern technology, and more appropriate music – that our Destiny, our Racial Destiny, is much greater than control of the Earth.

    That, after all, is the sole purpose of all actions done by the Jews, and we are made of – and can do – better, much damn better.

    Give the mud flood the ball of mud; all I can offer to my Posterity is “Honor, Discipline, and the Stars.”

    I hope one and all outgrow the high school cafeteria clique of The Cult of Pierce, and recognize that we have the moral obligation to our Race to do better…

    As Kevin Alfred Strom did, and, hopefully, will do again.

  38. roscoe on December 18th, 2008 5:02 pm

    ZOG– there was no such thing as Western Culture b4 Christianity.

  39. roscoe on December 18th, 2008 5:15 pm

    Classical Mediterranean culture was the pre-cursor to Western Civilisation

  40. roscoe on December 18th, 2008 7:56 pm

    ZOG Have you ever heard of Hellenistic judaics? Unless I am mistaken the judaics were close to classical Greek culture to such an extent that the OT was read in Greek by most of them BC

  41. Z.O.G. on December 18th, 2008 8:30 pm

    roscoe, have you ever heard of the Maccabean revolt? Huh? The Jewish leaders in Palestine led a revolt against the Greek government(Antiochus IV) ruling over them because they hated non-Jewish cultures and civilizations, just like they do today. Nothing has changed, except the religions. Christianity and Islam didn’t exist at the time of the Maccabean revolt.

  42. Z.O.G. on December 18th, 2008 8:35 pm

    Oh, and roscoe, I guess you never heard of the two Jewish revolts under Roman rule either, huh? Oh, and guess what, Christianity had nothing to do with either of these revolts either. While Christianity did technically exist at the time of the two Jewish revolts under Roman rule(late 1st century and early 2nd century), it was a new religion limited to a few fanatics and was officially suppressed by the Roman government.

    So I guess these important facts just conveniently slipped your mind, huh?

    :-)

  43. Z.O.G. on December 18th, 2008 8:40 pm

    ZOG– there was no such thing as Western Culture b4 Christianity.

    LOL

    I just wanted to quote this post from roscoe to point out to people the level of idiocy that we’re dealing with here.

  44. Mary O on December 19th, 2008 1:57 am

    Great show! But what is the source of the info that Mrs. Putin is a Jew? She doesn’t look Jewish. http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1935000/images/_1937377_lyuda_putina_ap_150.jpg

  45. Mishko Novosel on December 19th, 2008 2:11 am

    Mary O, does Scarlett Johansson, who’s family is made up of Ashkenazi jews from the Bronx, look jewish to you?

    http://www.mathies.com/blog/scarlett_johansson1_sm.jpg

    Keep this in mind, these wonderful people have stole a TON of DNA from other cultures, primarily Caucasians, to cover their trails….. ; )

    Do not let the khazars fool you….

  46. Mary O on December 19th, 2008 3:03 am

    I am not well-informed about celebrities, but Johannsen looks like a Khazar princess here …

    http://www.123people.net/j/johansson-scarlett/johansson-scarlett13.jpg

    But I looked at other pictures of Mrs. Putin, and she seems vaguely Swiss to me. Can’t imagine Vladmir Putin trusting a Jew. Also, she seems to have a warm and gentle personality; contrast to the coldness in Johannsen’s eyes and her sarcastic expression.

  47. Mary O on December 19th, 2008 1:41 pm

    Regarding European’s post with quote from Covington; I share your concern that our very fragile unity is being destroyed by anti-Christianity. I was raised a Catholic, and consider myself Christian. Of course, the Catholic Church has many strengths and weaknesses; but we must consider that the Church of Rome has been handed down to us from the people of Rome, molded by Medieval Europeans, and ultimately transformed in ways both good and bad into our current Christian Churches. To reject Christianity in its entirety is to reject White culture and our White forebears; even if one sharply disagrees with certain doctrines or attitudes associated with Christianity, as Whites, we owe Christianity a certain respect. Yes, constructive criticisms of our White religions are perfectly acceptable, but patent insults are not.

    Covington refers to people in the movement as being “dysfunctional,” but maybe he is not considering that so many Whites are with us in their hearts. Actions speak louder than words. Whites flee Black neighbors, and tend to socialize with other races only when forced by work or school requirements.

    Regarding Covington’s criticisms of Pierce:

    Alex Linder: “There’s a difference between a revolutionary organization and a fan club. National Alliance was a fan club.”

    Pierce apparently had a charismatic personality, and many WN do seem to idealize him, esp. those who were lucky enough to actually have met him in person. Unfortunately, despite his considerable gifts, his work did have certain flaws, and indeed our enemies have often used some of his ideas against us. Consider the “Turner Diaries”: my main criticism of this novel is that the “Organization’s” case against the “System” is not detailed sufficiently to persuade the politically naive reader. The writing is crystal clear and often witty, the situation intriguing and the action swift; unfortunately, we are introduced to the main characters already pretty much in battle, and not given enough background to feel that we know them personally, or understand their great suffering. Then, of course, the novel provided a blueprint for the OK City bombing. McVeigh was framed as a “right-wing nutcase” just by the fact that the novel in his possession! Furthermore, the Organization actually targets the traditional conservatives as traitors who are willing to compromise with the System; did this attitude alienate a larger group of potentially sympathetic Whites? On the other hand, these traditional “conservatives” like Tom Wolfe, often seem to see Political Correctness as an elaborate game of manners which the skillful and the innocent sometimes actually win (“I am Charlotte Simmons”, also “Bonfire of the Vanities”) rather than ruthless Communism. So I think the question for WN in general becomes, is there a way to express our criticisms of traditional White beliefs in a more respectful and persuasive manner; that is, define our positions, while taking care not to insult or threaten other Whites?

    Thank you again for a very interesting discussion of our current situation.

  48. New America on December 19th, 2008 4:04 pm

    in reply to Mary O:

    you wrote:

    Covington refers to people in the movement as being “dysfunctional,” but maybe he is not considering that so many Whites are with us in their hearts. Actions speak louder than words. Whites flee Black neighbors, and tend to socialize with other races only when forced by work or school requirements.

    in reply:
    Good point.

    Covington noted this is Covington’s Paradox, which is stated as follows:

    The best idea in the world attracts the worst people in the world as its public face.

    Covington is right; yet, the most segregated place on Earth is Church on Sunday morning, because that is where the State has no say in mandating outcomes.

    His Northwest Republic is developing in a de facto manner; the Northwest is where Whites are fleeing Alta California/New Aztlan, and the illegals are moving with all due speed to do what they always do, move to where Civilization WORKS, and that is where the White Race IS.

    Period.

    I admire your thoughtful critique of Sky God William Pierce, as it hits upon the critical weakness of his work – he never defined or tried to create any sort of organization, and Bob Mathews – arguably the heir to Rockwell – had to form ill-formed organizations, based on ill-informed understanding of the situation.

    Just as Pierce had no qualms about reading the words of Kevin Alfred Strom for the American Dissident Voices broadcasts, so, too, did he have no qualms about taking Order money, and, somehow, just building a nice little place in the country for himself.

    Which was – and Covington is just flat out RIGHT about this – the sign that Pierce was not about building an effective political organization, which is THE KEY to effective political effectiveness, regardless of what Form the government of the moment takes.

    So, Pierce’s followers read when they wanted to read, and saw themselves as they chose to see themselves – great Revolutionary leaders, at the head of the great torchlight parades.

    Slight problem.

    You have to do a LOT of work to get to the point where you can have torchlight parades, and this includes the plain, everyday nuts and bolts of dealing with the structures of everyday life, including political organization.

    I view all criticism as being little more than critique, unless it offers a constructive analysis, and a constructive solution, to the problem.

    That is why I always ask the critics of Christianity what they have that is better, and why?

    Generally, they worship at the First Church of Budweiser and Barbeque, so it does not matter what they think, if you know what I mean.

    I have more to say about Pierce and The Turner Diaries, but that time is more profitably spent reading Covington, such as “A Distant Thunder,” and “The Brigade.”

  49. European on December 19th, 2008 10:40 pm

    Alex Linder: “There’s a difference between a revolutionary organization and a fan club. National Alliance was a fan club.”

    ————

    Yes, there is a big difference. But, at least Pierce had a REAL fanclub. You, on the other hand, just have an INTERNET fanclub.

  50. Z.O.G. on December 19th, 2008 10:52 pm

    New America(Edgar Steele),

    Christianity is a tool of the Jews and World Zionism. It’s a joke.

    LOL :-D

  51. New America on December 19th, 2008 11:49 pm

    in reply to European:

    you wrote:

    Alex Linder: “There’s a difference between a revolutionary organization and a fan club. National Alliance was a fan club.”

    ————

    Yes, there is a big difference. But, at least Pierce had a REAL fanclub. You, on the other hand, just have an INTERNET fanclub.

    in reply:
    Yes, Pierce had a fanclub, and it was substantial.

    But, it was ONLY a fanclub; for all of Pierce’s speeches on “White Archipelagos,” and all of these ill-conceived pipedreams, the “National Alliance” never had any plans for being anything more than, well, a Pierce fanclub.

    There is a tragedy in this, of course, in that Pierce took the foundations defined by Rockwell, and the written (and spoken!) words of Kevin Alfred Strom, and built – thanks, apparently, to Order money – a nice little retreat for himself.

    In short, White Nationalism lived behind the nice, safe, walls established by Pierce, and a few others, and never grew beyond that.

    And that is the tragedy.

    So many people listened to Pierce because, using the words and Ideas of Kevin Alfred Strom, he offered hope to many people, who felt glad that they were not alone in seeing the issues in Racial terms.

    But that was all Pierce offered, and – according to Metzger, who I trust on this – Bob Mathews QUIT the National Alliance, and struck out on his own, ill-conceived Plan, doing the ONE thing the System is set up to quickly attack, and destroy – using armed force against the System.

    This leaves us in the best position – no one is coming to our aid – not Sky God Pierce, not Sky God Rockwell, not Sky God Uncle Adolph – and we have the challenging opportunity to be what we need to become, to develop the foundation of a new Nation, as a Homeland for the best of our Race.

    Let’s hope Kevin Alfred Strom returns to us sooner, rather than later, and, as for Alex Linder, let’s hope he understands the wisdom of Harold Covington, and understands that we have the Creative power to transform our insurmountable obstacles into transforming opportunities.

    THINK in terms of being the Living Foundation of a New Nation.

    Covington’s Northwest Republic Analytical Model is an excellent place to start.

  52. roscoe on December 20th, 2008 2:25 am

    Extra Ecclesium Nulla Salus

  53. Blue Collar Brad on December 29th, 2008 3:58 pm

    This is not a slam on Voice of Reason either. In life I try to do the most I can for the movement and it doesn’t seem as much but food for thought, you guys can lead by example and stop giving the anti’s a good laugh on it and a soap opera. I do love all your guys work as a whole.

    Below is a message that I sent to Alex Linder in hopes that you guys could get over your differences.

    I hope you and yours have a good New Years. Looks like we might be getting pulled into WW3 shortly. I don’t know what happened with Voice of Reason Network and you but I agree with Peter Shank, I hope you guys patch things up. I am not bashing you, actually I am on your side. All I can remember is that people did not like who you were dating & they got sensitive of how the website was ran or something or other. I did post this on VOR network, People like me who don’t want to be fucked with by the jews & negros that try to keep their family safe appreciate the work that you guys do. Here comes the but, I don’t mean a big black but either, lol. I wish you guys could consolidate & start a kickass podcast like RBN, and reel in Mississippi Free Radio with you guys. Everybody & their brother wants donations & I know you don’t ask for it. Hopefully then other white people would get behind you and start another white broadcast system. Everybody talks about it but there are so many white activists, national Socialists, etc out there. We need a unity not an ego trip. This thing is bigger than all of us and I know you were the beginning of a very good thing until everybody got pissed off & split off into more sanctions. This is how it is always done. I wonder who loves dividing & conquering, hmmm.

  54. New America on December 29th, 2008 8:20 pm

    in reply to Blue Collar Brad:

    I suspect it will be some time before Alex Linder will reply to you.

    That is a (small) tragedy, because the Obama Presidency has crystallized the Race issue for the White Race like no other.

    We already have many pieces of the same fabric slowly coming together.

    Metzger wanted to make the “Not Equal” mathematical symbol – the “equals” sign with a line drawn through it vertically – and that is already available as a bumper sticker from Frank Roman’s guys at Western Voices World News.

    Metzger has also framed his ideas in terms of the Framework Jack London would use if London was here today.

    I feel sorry for what Linder has done. but I know I did more than my part in defending him after Porngate.

    I will not be criticized, and locked out of VNN, for simply commenting on an issue that VNN raised – the release of Kevin Alfred Strom from incarceration – and to which I replied that my opinion concerning Kevin Alfred Strom would be consistent with the opinion of the Federal judiciary.

    While I have crossed swords – respectfully – with VNN’s Socrates, who runs the Main Page/blog, I must say that Linder’s response re Kevin Alfred Strom simply reminds me of the high school cafeteria cliques that were the hallmark of Movement Past.

    And I am tired of their track record of pathetic, repeated failure, in virtually all matters.

    What calls itself “White Nationalism” is really neither, when you get down to it.

    It’s “White Factionalism” that never rises to the level of maturity needed to run for dogcatcher, much less lead a Nation to fulfill its destiny of greatness.

    It’s “White Adolescence,” with low-level back-fighting over the most trivial of issues, in good part because the goals are so small, the rewards so minor, that they must fight like trapped animals over the table leavings of their betters.

    I don’t want to reduce this to a beat-down of Alex Linder; I respect the good he has done, and the good he is still doing, albeit in a dramatically diminished capacity.

    I do want this to be an amplification of Peter’s Commentary, that the challenges are so great that what separates us must not overrule our greater Racial duties.

    That’s why I have supported having Metzger on, Covington on, and, yes, hopefully, if he returns to the Interwebs, Kevin Alfred Strom.

    You see, historically, White Nationalism was top-down – Pierce, Oliver, Rockwell, Strom, and a few others.

    With the Internet, it is now enormously more powerful, because the top points were control points. If the Cult of Pierce didn’t like what you had to say, you were pretty much stopped from reaching the audience.

    Not any more.

    So, the people Linder kicks off VNN go on to form Podblanc, VOR., and to participate actively in various other forums, such as Bob Whitaker’s, and develop a new center for what could become the White Nationalist CAUSE, today, and the White Nationalist MOVEMENT, in time.

    I’d like to think Linder could work well with others, but, the issue can not be which high school cafeteria clique rules the tables, but which of us grow beyond, and LEAVE high school, to make the world a better place for our Family, and our Race.

    Of course, Linder is undoubtedly always welcome to come over here and discuss things.

    We aren’t allowed over there, and, well, isn’t that rather telling?

    Fine.

    Stay in high school.

    The rest of us are building a better Nation, for our Families, and our Race.

    Tell Linder the door is always open, and if Kevin Alfred Strom shows up, and shows up his critics, well, Pierce would be proud of what Kevin Alfred Strom has done before, and (hopefully) will do again.

    Now, who wants to be the NEXT Pierce?

    THAT will take First Prize.

  55. New America on December 29th, 2008 8:48 pm

    in further reply to Blue Collar Brad:

    Listen to Peter’s 3 dec 08 show for the strongest constructive criticism of “White Nationalism” you can imagine.

    He made several great points, but his best is the Idea that Our GOAL can be successfully and accurately defined in TWO WORDS:

    SAVING CIVILIZATION

    Let THAT be our starting point, and listen to the show to understand why.

  56. Mary O on December 29th, 2008 8:56 pm

    Response to Blue-Collar Brad; you are right that WW3 could be beginning, but Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi LIvni’s statement (See YouTube.) regarding Israel’s latest attack may indicate otherwise. Despite her big ugly sneer at us Goyishers, her eyes seemed terrified. Perhaps little Tzipi is realizing that the whole world hates Israel, and that Americans will not rally behind her tyrannical little state. US support for Israel is (JMO) extremely exaggerated.

    Who are the WN base? During the recent election, the GOP made the claim that Palin “energized the base.” However, the GOP base was not the ilk of eccentric Palin; rather its true base is the most despised demographic of all Whites; that is, middle-class, educated Whites who primarily live in the suburbs. These betrayed Whites must become our WN base.

    And, also, what do we believe really? We cannot ignore the huge ideological rifts among people who believe in WN. On every board, one can read viewpoints espousing nationalist conservatism, nationalist socialism, libertarianism, mere anti-Liberalism, and GOP compromisers. Perhaps unity is appealing, but may only be doable with regard to certain specific issues; i.e. we all oppose Affirmative Action, Israel, the wars, outsourcing, and immigration. If we focus on this core, we may gain traction.

    Private conversations might resolve the conflicts that seem to be causing so much loss of friendship.

  57. Mary O on December 29th, 2008 9:03 pm

    “Now, who wants to be the NEXT Pierce?”

    Who we really need is Hitler.

  58. roscoe on December 29th, 2008 9:16 pm

    Hitler was a Judaic

  59. New America on December 29th, 2008 10:26 pm

    in reply to Mary (1):

    you wrote:

    Private conversations might resolve the conflicts that seem to be causing so much loss of friendship.

    in respectful reply:
    That sounds like the advice the guidance counselor might offer at a battle of the high school cafeteria cliques!

    My concern is the ongoing process of White Genocide, and the obstacles are so great that there will be no shortage of opportunities to develop organizations along the way.

    “Let A Thousand Flowers Bloom!”

    Accept Alex for what he his – our best writer, analyst, and commentator, and for what he also is – a man with a very, very poor sense of personal judgement.

    VOR is the real “Open Source” model, and I hope we continue to expand, as dramatically as possible.

    Linder is always welcome to come over here, and discuss issues, most anytime, including Kevin Alfred Strom, and what it might mean if he returns to the Internet.

    Given what seems to have been her track record at VNN Forum, I suspect Mrs. Kevin Alfred Strom might be much more comfortable at VNN.

    Good.

  60. New America on December 29th, 2008 10:30 pm

    in reply to Mary (2)

    I wrote:

    “Now, who wants to be the NEXT Pierce?”

    you replied:

    Who we really need is Hitler.

    in reply:
    What we need is someone who can do for the Race – for Western Civilization – what Hitler did in Germany did during the NSDAP Cultural Moment at its best – remove the power of the parasites at the Institutional level, and allowing the Creative Powers of the Creative race to manifest fully.

    I think the model propounded by Ezra Pound might be an excellent thought exercise.

  61. Mary O on December 29th, 2008 11:09 pm

    “That sounds like the advice the guidance counselor might offer at a battle of the high school cafeteria cliques!”

    I went to an all-nerd school, so I have no idea.

  62. katman on December 30th, 2008 12:39 am

    Wikipedia needs you. Support the largest non-profit project on the web.
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    man, how did those jews at wikipedia raise so much so fast? amazing….

  63. Z.O.G. on December 30th, 2008 1:25 am

    Yeah, and notice that their fund-raising goal is $6 million!

    LOL

  64. New America on December 30th, 2008 2:08 am

    Continuing the idea of the next Pierce, let’s think about what the next Pierce might look like, and how he might fit into VOR.

    I mention VOR because it is the Open Source website for our Race, with no agenda other than what works for our Race, and makingthat happen.

    Two thoughts:

    One, Pierce was thoroughly grounded in the best the “Movement” had to offer, having worked with Rockwell, and being thoroughly conversant with the Doctrines that lead to, support and sustain White Nationalist thinking – or, to use a kinder, gentler, term, the quality and caliber of thought that supports and sustains Civilization, in general, and Western Civilization, in particular.

    Two, I think Pierce was less than enthralled with most of who tried to support explicitly White Nationalist causes and organizations. He saw fat people, morbidly obese people, hard drinkers and alcoholics, and people who had green damn teeth.

    His response was to hide, as quickly as possible, and try to form an Elite – a Racial Vanguard – who could be trusted with carrying The Work forward.

    This did not achieve as much as it might had while he was alive, and fell apart pretty quickly upon his death.

    I think, sadly, this might be a good part of the continued undercurrent of antagonism between White Nationalist writers who worked with Pierce.

    The Open Source nature of VOR allows one and all the opportunities to write commentary and analysis like Alex Linder, and Kevin Alfred Strom, without fear or favor.

    So far, so adequate. “So good” is a bit of a ways down the road.

    What next?

    I think Peter Schaenk just nailed it out of the park when he suggested the proper Analytical Framework was the Furtherance of Civilization.

    BY DEFINITION, only one Race can make this process happen, and make it continue ever higher.

    BY DEFINITION, only one Religion – the Cultural Framework in which spirituality is defined and expressed – can make this work.

    I’ll start thinking about this a bit more, but I think this fits in well with the Open Source framework of VOR.

    Remember, we aren’t “preaching the Gospel” here.

    We ARE observing the one, and only one, religion, carries Civilization forward.

    Just some ideas to throw out for the New Year.

  65. Blue Collar Brad on December 30th, 2008 6:17 pm

    I wanted to thank New America for responding to me. I understand the junior high mentality. If VOR responded in such a well manner to Alex Linder then you have sincerely raised the bar. Now the ball is in his court. Hopefully he’ll take your offer & come on like a mature adult would. I am a very passionate individual. I want to make no mistakes about it. I truly love the Voice of Reason network and everybody that participates in it. I have issues with certain groups myself. So let’s move forward. I wish you all a Happy New Year’s.

    PS I know you guys know Randy Gray. He won public office in Midland Michigan. Now the jew government is trying to kick him out. Would you guys be willing to have him tell his side of the story? All the best, I do think you guys are the tops.

    Sincerely,
    Blue Collar Brad

  66. New America on December 30th, 2008 6:27 pm

    in reply to Blue Collar Brad:

    VOR will succeed because it is Open Source on what will become White Nationalism – if things work our way, and we do our part.

    I take nothing away from Linder for all of the good he has done. You might want to go to the VNN Main Page/blog, go to the right side of the page and scroll down until you see the SEARCH box. type in “Kevin Alfred Strom” and see how the issues are being shaped, in microcosm, as a reflection of the macrocosm.

    I suspect VOR will love to have Randy on; he is Doing It Right, and that is exactly what we need.

    Peter hit the Big Issue as well as anyone; his Framework is even greater – in scope – than Covington’s, and that is Civilization – period.

    One Idea for the New Year:

    EQUALITY IS THE OPPOSITE OF INDIVIDUALITY, AND THE DESTROYER OF SELF-WORTH.

    There.

    That ought to do it.

  67. New America on December 30th, 2008 6:30 pm

    in further reply to Blue Collar Brad:

    We aren’t worried about high school cafeteria cliques.

    We’re building a new damn schoolhouse.

    And we are working on the next Pierce, and, hopefully, the next Rockwell, and, in time, the next Jefferson.

  68. James Hawthorne on January 1st, 2009 6:47 am

    Great Celtic song if you can download ir.

    http://www.imeem.com/people/ecu81d/music/qNHvfXd8/barbara_dickson_flower_of_scotland/

    I can explain more…

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