Kevin MacDonald interviewed by Peter Schaenk

November 16, 2008

UPDATE: Download the audio archive here.

VoR radio host Peter Schaenk returns Wednesday, November 19, 2008 with an interview with a special guest: psychology professor and author Kevin MacDonald.

Kevin MacDonald is a professor of psychology at California State University-Long Beach, best known for his use of evolutionary psychology to inform his study of Judaism as a “group evolutionary strategy”. MacDonald’s most controversial claim is his assertion that a suite of traits that he attributes to Jews, including higher-than-average intelligence and ethnocentricism, have been eugenically derived throughout history to enhance the ability of Jews to out-compete non-Jews for resources while undermining the power and self-confidence of the white majorities in Europe and America.

MacDonald was born in Oshkosh, Wisconsin and raised in a traditional Roman Catholic family. He entered the University of Wisconsin-Madison and became an activist in the anti-war movement from about 1965 to 1975. It was during this period that he came into contact with the East Coast Jewish background of the radical leftist movement then shaking the Establishment of America. Much later, during the 1990s, when he was formulating his idea of ethnic groups sustaining themselves with group evolutionary strategies, he began to reflect on his experiences during those days as an activist in “the movement”, in which he was in regular contact with an ethnic group that had relatively little history in the upper Midwest America of which he was a part. These reflections sparked his interest in Jewish intellectual and political movements.

MacDonald became a philosophy major and lost his radicalism. He embarked on a career as a Jazz pianist, but by the late 1970s had abandoned it in favor of academia. While in graduate school, he became attracted to E.O. Wilson’s theory of sociobiology.

MacDonald is also the author of seven books on evolutionary psychology and child development. He received his B.A. in philosophy from the University of Wisconsin-Madison in 1966, and M.S. in biology from the University of Connecticut in 1976. He earned a Ph.D. in 1981 (Biobehavioral Sciences) from the University of Connecticut.

Since assuming his position at Cal State–Long Beach, his research has focused on developing evolutionary perspectives in developmental psychology and personality theory, the origins and maintenance of monogamous marriage in Western Europe, and ethnic relations (human group evolutionary strategies). He is the author of more than 100 scholarly papers and reviews.

The books MacDonald is most known for are his trilogy on Judaism: A People That Shall Dwell Alone, Separation and Its Discontents, and, his most popular and most controversial, The Culture of Critique. A collection of MacDonald’s essays in book form, Cultural Insurrections, has been published by The Occidental Press. I have posted the links to all of these books below.

Some articles by Kevin MacDonald:

Understanding Jewish Influence I: Background Traits for Jewish Activism

Understanding Jewish Influence II: Zionism and the Internal Dynamics of Judaism

Understanding Jewish Influence III: Neoconservatism as a Jewish Movement

American Transcendentalism: An indigenous culture of critique [a very interesting article on the Puritan heritage in shaping the American Transcendentalist activist movement and American life in general]

The Neoconservative Mind. A review of the book They Knew They Were Right: The Rise of the Neocons, by Jacob Heilbrunn

Jewish Involvement in Influencing US Immigration Policy, 1881-1965

Was the 1924 Immigration Cut-off “Racist”?

Immigration and the Unmentionable Question of Ethnic Interests

Psychology and White Ethnocentrism

The Utter Normality of Ethnonationalism – Except for Whites

What Makes Western Culture Unique?

Why We Write

Sites and info:

Personal site:

Blog: Kevin MacDonald Blog

Buy books: A People That Shall Dwell Alone, Separation and Its Discontents, The Culture of Critique, and Cultural Insurrections



36 Responses to “Kevin MacDonald interviewed by Peter Schaenk”

  1. roscoe on November 16th, 2008 3:05 pm
  2. whodareswings on November 17th, 2008 11:41 pm

    I was very disappointed with Kevin MacDonald’s remarks, during his Political Cesspool interview, on holocaust “denial.” I thought they smacked of academic hubris and that he went way out of his way to distance himself from the plight of the lay
    historians (and holocaust heretics) currently serving jail sentences in America, Austria and Germany for their audacious skepticism.

    I don’t understand how he could spend an hour patting himself on the back for being such a defender of Western white
    values and then hang an old street fighter like Ernst Zundel (who repeatedly put his fortune, freedom and life on the line to educate gullible gentiles) out to dry. KMac obviously doesn’t want to be associated with this new unseemly “thought criminal” element, but if he cared as much as he claims about our struggle he’d have the courage and decency to commend and stand with revisionists instead of dismissing them.

  3. Z.O.G. on November 18th, 2008 2:57 am

    Yes, I agree. It is extremely suspicious that Kevin MacDonald doesn’t and won’t discuss the biggest fraud in human history, the Hollow Hoax. :-(

  4. roscoe on November 18th, 2008 3:31 am

    I hate to spoil the ‘party’, but could someone please expain to me the significance of Zundel’s association with the UFO op?

  5. Mike Conner on November 18th, 2008 1:57 pm

    Uh, guys… Illuminati weather? UFO op? KMac is “extremely suspicious”? What are you guys smoking?

    Folks, this is the Voice of Reason Broadcast Network, not the Voice of Lunacy. Please write your comments accordingly.

  6. Steve (Codex) on November 18th, 2008 2:39 pm

    The works of Dr. MacDonald stand on their own. It is nowhere written that he has to march in lock step with Holocaust revisionists or to even support their ideas. The notion that if he does not support Holocaust revisionism, then he is somehow no longer relevant or is to be held in suspicion is ridiculous. If Kevin MacDonald believes that the Holocaust happened or that the story is pretty close, then that is his business. He certainly does not support the criminality of revisionism, though.

    He has stated that his interest in the Holocaust is not in debating details of its validity, but he is more interested in how the Holocaust has been used by interested groups to create change in the culture of the West. So, no, he isn’t going to get caught up in arguing about the minutia of the Holocaust, his concern is in its effects.

  7. European on November 18th, 2008 4:54 pm

    @Mike Conner

    Amen to that.

  8. roscoe on November 18th, 2008 5:16 pm

    The reason I put Illuminati weather up is because the Pyramid from the back of Dollar bill was on the weather page for a few hours before it was removed by KFWB.

  9. New America on November 18th, 2008 6:14 pm

    Dr. MacDonald lectures on an issue of the first importance, to us – the issues involved, and the actual mechanics involved in – how one Race, with less than three percent of the population, CONTROLS the other NINETY-SEVEN PERCENT, and did so without firing a shot!

    THAT is what we should be paying attention to, and actually working with these ideas for the benefit of our Family, our Posterity, and our Race.


  10. M Robartes on November 18th, 2008 7:06 pm

    Dr. McDonald has taken a particular stand on the alleged events of WWII. He believes that to touch the issue makes the vast majority of listeners tune out to anything else he might have to say. He is probably right on that point. However, I disagree with him that this means pursuing the issue is a waste of time. in my view this is what makes it a crucial lynchpin issue to deal with. I know that in my case, it was learning the truth of the holocaust that woke me up and made me question everthing else I saw. pull out this card and the whole house comes tumbling down.

    However, McDonald does not agree with this. It does not invalidate his work or make him suspicious to me.

  11. Welsh John on November 18th, 2008 7:21 pm

    Whether tune in or tune out is no representation of the truth.

  12. Z.O.G. on November 18th, 2008 9:29 pm


    When you use the word “Holocaust” with a capital ‘H’, you are legitimizing and implicitly agreeing with the idea that “6 million Jews were killed by the evil Notzees in gas chambers.”

    Please stop legitimizing and giving support to this big fat fairy tale. Okay?

  13. Z.O.G. on November 18th, 2008 9:33 pm

    Instead of using the Jews’ synthetic fake term “Holocaust”, always use a comedic parody word in its place instead, in order to mock the Jews’ fake historical event and laugh in their faces. Here are all the examples that I know of:

    Holy Caust
    Holy Hoax
    Hollow Hoax

  14. Z.O.G. on November 18th, 2008 9:37 pm

    Edgar Steele,

    Like I said, a worldwide economic depression is starting right now. It is in its beginning stages. Next year it really takes off(2009). This will be the worst economic depression in human history, and it will be global.

    Nothing will change until then.

  15. Reck,Less:Abandon on November 20th, 2008 12:58 am


  16. Reck,Less:Abandon on November 20th, 2008 1:01 am

    Wholly Co$t

  17. Reck,Less:Abandon on November 20th, 2008 1:04 am

    Holy Co$t

  18. Z.O.G. on November 20th, 2008 3:21 am

    Thanks, Reckless. Now that’s using your head! ;-)

  19. Reck,Less:Abandon on November 20th, 2008 4:03 am

    Well, Thank you very much Z.O.G., you are/were my inspiration there….. Well, you and the LS<;~D!

  20. hey_ya on November 20th, 2008 5:54 am


    Holy Cause

  21. Z.O.G. on November 20th, 2008 4:54 pm

    Thanks. ;-)

  22. Howdy Doody on November 21st, 2008 11:01 am

    For those who awoke to their life time of lies/brainwashing should not then forget that the truth is up against a Brain washed society.

    The lie is so gigantic it hard for average good naive folk to believe this genocidal hate lie has been foisted on the whole of Western Natiaons.

    Perhaps post WW 2 East block regimes did not get so brain washed as we did.

    Let US not forget that Jimmy Carter was forced on bend knee to apologized for a few specks of truth in his book.

    In July of 06, I hear Mikey Winnie Savage curse Jimmy Carter on air live. Though I rarely listen to him or any talk radio, just think about that one.

  23. roscoe on November 26th, 2008 2:34 am

    About 3 hrs ago, the TOP 14 STORIES on World Net Daily were re: Oboma Birth Cert. And he has created the Office of Pres Elect– which he is not legally until Dec 15.

    This Is It– Lee H Ozwald!!!

  24. Howdy Doody on November 26th, 2008 2:40 am

    Oy ! My,,,,,,

  25. roscoe on November 26th, 2008 4:02 pm

    Shankus– is there going to be a show today?? Happy Thanksgiving to all.

    Infallible Constitution of Roman Catholic Church

    http://www/ and #6

  26. James Hawthorne on December 5th, 2008 7:55 pm

    I think KMac needs to do his research on what happend with the current meltdown.

    Hebert and Marion Sandler (Jews) sold sub prime loans (which they knew were bad) to Wachovia. They made $26 Billion on those bad loans. Wachovia and thousands of Gentile depositors lost their life savings, 401k investments etc and Wachovia went bust.

    Goldman Sachs, the Lehman Brothers (Jews) among other Jewish Wall Street investment ‘institutions’, ripped off further Gentile investors by the billions.

    Worse still, the Jewish Federal Reserve Bank of the United States, paid billions of Gentile tax money and paid it to their fellow jews through the “bailout”.

  27. Giordan Smith on December 8th, 2008 7:45 am

    I wouldn’t recommend anyone to listen to this program. Very early on, both Schaenk and MacDonald discredit themselves with the most shallow and ignorant discussion of Holocaust revisionism I’ve ever heard. Basically, they both put down revisionism, despite the fact that neither seems to know anything about it.

    If they had read the many excellent books on the subject by writers like Germar Rudolf, Juergen Graf and Carlo Mattongo, they couldn’t possibly maintain the ludicrous arguments they put forward in this section of the program. I find myself now extremely suspicious of the motives of both individuals. What white nationalists of any integrity would take seriously such fables as gas chamber exterminationism when it has not been proven that so much as a single Jew was ever gassed by the Germans?

    What’s more, the both radically overstate the importance of revisionism to the battle for white European culture. The Holocaust is the Jewish imposition of a whole new religion on the non-Jewish peoples of the world. How could it not be politically expedient from a white nationalist viewpoint to expose this attempt to make Holocaustianity the de facto religion of the white European peoples?

    My opinion of both MacDonald and Schraenk has plummeted after hearing them both essentially come out in favour of Holocaust belief. As the ‘Holocaust’ amounts the biggest defamation of white European peoples ever conceived by twisted Jewish brains, I find myself wondering if this pair are just another couple of Jewish puppets designed to send white people in the wrong direction.

  28. Giordan Smith on December 8th, 2008 7:48 am

    CORRECTION: I meant to write ‘the both radically understate the importance of revisionism to the battle for white European culture.’ No idea why I wrote ‘overstate.’

  29. Giordan Smith on January 6th, 2009 8:17 am

    Update: it seems that in their approach to the Holocaust Macdonald and Schaenk are working from the Guillaume Faye textbook. See the excellent review of Faye’s latest book by Juergen Graf:

    I wonder whose behind these anti-revisionist white nationalists?

  30. Mike Conner on January 6th, 2009 1:47 pm

    I just deleted a few posts by Giordan Smith. While good faith disagreement over views and tactics is acceptable, we will not longer tolerate comments which 1. skew the statements of the host or his guests, or 2. obliquely question the motives of the host. Assume good faith, or hit the bricks.

  31. Igor Alexander on February 6th, 2009 2:20 pm

    Good interview. I agree with the others here that it was lame of MacDonald to try to dismiss the efforts of holocaust revisionists. MacDonald is of course free to disassociate himself from revisionists and disagree with their findings, but why attack them? He says he believes in free speech, so what’s the problem if some historians want to revise the holocaust? Revisionists don’t tell MacDonald what to do with his time, so why does he feel entitled to tell them what to do with theirs?

    It was Ernst Zundel and the brouhaha surrounding “Did Six Million Really Die?” that initially piqued my curiosity and led me to start seeing Jews as slightly less than angelic, not Kevin MacDonald’s books, which at the time were virtually unknown outside of psychology departments. If it weren’t for Zundel, I probably never would have started looking at the Jewish Question, and I would never even have heard of MacDonald. There are many roads that lead to Rome.

    It’s ridiculous to suppose that the only thing holding white nationalism back is that we aren’t “respectable” enough, according to some Jew-established standard of “respectability.” Criticizing Jews will never be “respectable” as long as Jews dominate our mass media (including institutions of higher learning).

    On a technical note, I wish you would reduce the compression a bit, Peter. Your compression ratio is up so high it almost sounds like the audio is clipping. It’s hard to listen to, especially over speakers.

  32. Igor Alexander on February 6th, 2009 4:28 pm

    I’m not sure my point about respectability was clear. People in our movement are always saying that WN doesn’t take off because we use the “n-word” too much, because we tolerate “extremist” groups in our midst which give us a bad name, or because we don’t wear business suits or aren’t denouncing Hitler loudly enough. Well, while I agree that it’s tactically not sound to live up to Hollywood white supremacist stereotypes, I don’t think this was ever the primary problem. The problem is that as long as middle class whites have food in the fridge, it’s much easier for them to go with the flow than to buck the status quo. Hey, so what if the inner cities have become dangerous multiracial hellholes? We can always go to the suburbs. Well, a lot of middle class whites *won’t* have food in the fridge much longer, and won’t have the safety of the suburbs to run to. Believe me, when a “respectable” white guy with an engineering degree is standing in a bread line with his children, while an affirtmative action black drives by in a luxury car, the last thing on that unemployed engineer’s mind is going to be what his neighbors will think of him if he uses the “n-word.”

    People who think in terms of “respectability” still naively believe there’s a way to vote ourselves out of this mess, that if we only follow the rules, we can beat the system at its own game. Well, there’s no way to beat the system at its own game — the game is rigged. What we need is revolution, not reform.

    Too many people are still stuck in that comfortable white middle class baby boomer mentality. They don’t realize that society as we’ve known it is on the verge of a total collapse. There is a price to ignoring reality, and we’re about to pay that price.

  33. Igor Alexander on February 7th, 2009 12:30 am

    Good article on Guillaume Faye, Giordan Smith.

    Allowing their movement to be co-opted by Jews who see it as in their group interest to put a stop to Muslim and Arab immigration is a trap I hope most white nationalists won’t fall into. We’ve already seen this sort of kosher racism in the Republican Party and the neo-conservative movement. These kosher racists cheer when American bombs kill Arab children, but they won’t lift a finger to stop the Mexican invasion into their own country. Pathetic, cowardly, despicable people.

    I liked this passage from the article:

    “I don’t think any compromise with the Jews will ever be possible, for the following reason: effective struggle against immigration within the current framework is impossible. Therefore, in order to stop the invasion the current framework has to be overthrown either by insurrection or a coup d’état. A nationalist government resulting from an insurrection or a coup d’état would necessarily have dictatorial powers, otherwise it wouldn’t be able to take the stern measures required to bring all non-European immigration to a halt and begin the repatriation, at least in part, of non-Europeans already present on French soil. In other words, the only way to stanch the invasion would be to establish a nationalist dicatorship, an authoritarian government. Can the Jews expect to still be allowed to control the media, to spread their anti-culture and their harmful ideologies, and to use totalitarian laws to stifle all debate on ‘the Shoa’ under such a government?”

  34. K-Sensor on February 11th, 2009 6:48 am

    Should be interesting.

    What do people think about Dr K on Rick Adam’s show?

  35. Peter Schaenk on February 11th, 2009 8:07 am

    What do you think about Kevin MacDonald being interviewed on my show?

    I notice you didn’t utter a peep when I had him on VoR, but now you are on this website promoting a Patriotard broadcaster?

    You got a lot of nerve K-Sensor. Do me a favor, don’t post any more plugs for your Patriotard buddies at the other network. They are working against what I stand for and what this network stands for.

    If you want to put your head in the noose, go right ahead, but I warned you…repeatedly.

    Re the interview with Adams:

    I feel sorry for Kevin, he should know better. Rick has never had an original thought in is head as long as I have heard him on the radio.

    Even his intro, “The Radio Avenger” is a rip off from a Black conservative talk show host in Colorado.

    Maybe Kevin can write up some questions for Rick, so he won’t be grasping for straws.

    Embarrassing to say the least.

  36. Howdy Doody on February 18th, 2009 3:10 am

    Rick Adams and the whole gang of knuckle heads at best or traitors at worst are not worth listening too, unless your paid $100 per hour for the suffering.